Alternate Members Bradford Cronin Daniel Finnegan Coy Kevin Hill David LeBlanc Thomas Norton

Transcription

1 NFPA 3 & 4 Technical Committee on Commissioning and Integrated Testing of Fire and Life Safety Systems (CMI-AAA) NFPA 3 & 4 A2014 Second Revision Meeting July 30-31, 2013 Minutes of Meeting 1. Chair Pilette called the meeting to order at 8:00 AM, Tuesday July 30, 2013 at Embassy Suites Indianapolis Downtown. 2. Chair introduced himself and self-introductions were made. (Agenda item 1) 3. Attendance included: Principal Members Maurice Pilette, Chair Cecil Bilbo Art Black Bruce Campbell Shane Clary Paul Dunphy Douglas Fisher Lawrence Forshner David Frable Kimberly Gruner Thomas Hammerberg John Hulett John Kampmeyer Robert Kasiski William Koffel (day 1) Russell Leavitt Principal members (cont d) Norbert Makowka Joe Noble Warren Olsen Pascal Pfeiffer Rodger Reiswig Robert Schifiliti Kenneth Schneider Jeffery Van Keuren Frank Van Overmeiren Alternate Members Bradford Cronin Daniel Finnegan Coy Kevin Hill David LeBlanc Thomas Norton Page 1 of 3 Alternate members (cont d) Thomas Parrish Richard Roberts Shawn Thompson Terry Victor Matthew Klaus, NFPA Staff Liaison Guests Keith Willoughby, AXA Matrix Dan Decker, FSSA Mike DeVore, State Farm Brian Fisher, UA Local 669 Keith Woller, UA Local 669 Sprinklerfitters 4. Cecil Bilbo spoke of the recent passing of our committee member, George Church. Cecil placed George s name placard next to the projector and asked that each committee member raise a toast in memory of George at dinner. 5. A count of 25 voting members was obtained. 6. Staff reminded of NFPA paperless process. He demonstrated login at clicking on next edition tab and discussed Manage my Alerts option. 7. Staff reviewed the agenda (attachment A) then demonstrated viewing of comments online from NFPA website or the pdf copy in the agenda electronic package. (Agenda item 2) 8. Staff thanked Kim Gruner for documenting meeting minutes. Motion made to correct First draft meeting minutes: 1) incorrect reference of Western time. 2) #15 and 17 need reference to topic of moving NFPA 3 from Recommended Practice to Standard. Motion to approve meeting minutes with changes noted. Motion seconded and passed. Corrected minutes, Attachment B. (Agenda item 3) 9. Staff provided schedule dates - ballot before Thanksgiving. Second draft will be posted by Jan. 3, Notice for NITMAM by 2/7/14. Staff suggested reviewing new NFPA process regarding revised NITMAM requirements. Anticipate vote in June 2014 at Las Vegas likely morning document on last day. Sept release with a 2015 date on published documents. 10. Staff communicated new NFPA process 2 nd draft meeting motions (4 options): Accept, Reject, Create 2 nd revision, Reject but See. 11. Chair communicated planned 3 day schedule and thanked Doug Fisher and David Frable for their work on submitting Public Comments. 12. Staff communicated that ANSI recently notified NFPA that ICC is developing a standard on total building commissioning. NFPA legal department has challenged the overlap in scope. NFPA and ICC have entered into deliberation contesting that ICC should reference NFPA 3. ASHRAE (also has a commissioning standard) is also deliberating with ICC. Discussed various options going forward. (Agenda item 4) 13. Motion was made to process NFPA 3 as a standard, yet swap agenda by starting with NFPA 4 comments, then proceed with 3. Motion seconded. More discussion regarding preferences for processing NFPA 3. Motion to table prior motion until day 2. Staff communicated that if NFPA 3 becomes a Standard, the deliberation would hold more credibility vs. as a Recommended Practice. 14. Motion was made to revise agenda and begin discussion on NFPA 4 comments. Motion approved.

2 15. Committee proceeded with acting on NFPA 4 public comments (PC). (Agenda item 6) 16. Chair asked staff to remind of 4 motions. Staff reminded committee of the 4 options: Accept, Reject, Create 2 nd revision, Reject but See. 17. Committee moved through NFPA 4 in order of document sequence occurrence, making Motions on each, second, discussion, then action taken. 18. Discussion on PC 8, request for new section after regarding retroactivity reference was made to NFPA 72 chapter , requirements applying to both new and existing system. Reference also made to section regarding the plan. Juridisctions can amend. Call to question was made and seconded. Motion to Accept failed. Motion to Reject, seconded, passed. 19. PC20, definition for Inspection was discussed. Motion to accept, voting via hands was requested. 13 votes for Accept, motion carried. 20. PC 2 included terms that are not currently in the document. Discussion whether the terms would be needed or should be in annex. Submitter does not want Integrated test to ignore Emergency power. Emergency power has many different switching devices and entities involved as well. Another vote of hands requested. 12 votes for Accept, 5 opposed. Motion carried. 21. Motion to table PC 34, 48, 49 and 35 until a task group could provide suggested Accept but See wording. Motion carried. Chair asked for task group. Volunteers included John K., Norbert, Mike, Paul, Dan F, Shawn, David F. Chair asked Norbert to chair the task group. 22. PC 36 motion to Reject and See, but could not find the appropriate section to reference. Chair asked the task group to determine the proper reference. Motion was tabled. 23. Lunch. Meeting brought back to order at 1:17 PM. 24. Norbert reported on Task group report PC 34, 35, 48, and 49. Committee agreed with task group work and motions passed. 25. Task group report for PC 36 recommended removing the text in its entirety as it was already covered. Items 3 and 4 removed from both sections and add subsections to follow addressing those 2 points. Task group motions passed. 26. Motion to revise annex A change shall to should and move to the new paragraphs A and A also A (5) is currently in wrong position and add it to the annex we just moved. Both sections motioned and carried. 27. Discussion regarding possible relief valve for smaller less complicated integrated systems. Sections 4.5.3, annex, and Annex 1.1. Intent is more for these examples in the handbook. 28. Chair asked for a show of hands to move forward on NFPA 4 as completed as a Standard and if anyone is against it or considering to NITMAM. Inspection definition was discussed and determined that it was similar to NFPA 25. Determined to leave it as processed. 29. Doug provided a presentation on NFPA 3 - Standard or Recommended Practice? 30. Adjourned at 4:28PM to begin at 8am tomorrow. 31. Day 2. Meeting called to order 8:00AM. 32. Voting members count at 24 (Bill Kofffel left). 33. Chair requested to act on motion from day Original motion to begin work on NFPA 3 as a Standard and complete as far as possible. If not slip one year. Seconded yesterday. Started debate. Tabled until today. 35. Discussion on options - moving forward as Standard and get it completed within this cycle, moving forward as Recommended Practice as originally tracked, as Recommended Practice with quick move to Standard. 36. Vote was made on original motion. Motion failed. 37. Motion to move forward as Recommended Practice and request standards council for a quick turn in the following year to a move to a Standard in a fast method due to the actions that ANSI is taking on a similar subject. Much discussion and what if s. 38. Call to question. Seconded. Chair called 15 minute recess. 39. Called back to order 9:33 AM. 40. Acted on the prior motion and call to question. Move forward as Recommended Practice and ask Standards Council to slip to cycle and move to Standard as soon as possible after this cycle completes. 41. Voted 14 voted for this process and motion carried. 42. Proceeded with PC s on NFPA 3. (Agenda item 5) 43. PC 60 was close vote, 9 voted for and 3-4 against. Motion passed. 44. Motion to add revised Interconnected diagram (as Bob S. previously provided for NFPA 3) to NFPA 4. Motion passed. Page 2 of 3

3 45. Lunch, Meeting called back to order at 1:21pm. 46. Doug, chair of task group for NFPA 3 as Standard, brought up the prior version proposed as standard. (Agenda item 7) 47. Chair forwarded draft NFPA 3 standard to committee electronically. Doug requested input for what needs to change. 48. Discussion about size of installation and how it does not apply to a standard but more for a code to address. Hot spots are where applied and it is not an issue for a standard but more for a code to address this. 49. Discussion regarding building types such that 13R does. Chapter that goes through building types or such for limiting language. Possible matrix if certain complexity it takes you into a specified method. 50. Discussed modifying the scope to indicate that NFPA 3 does NOT identify when commissioning shall apply. 51. Motion to add and consider task group to have no where required in the document to come back to the committee as annex. Motion carried. 52. Motion to go forward as a Standard. Seconded. More discussion, motion and second was withdrawn. 53. Doug motioned for reconstitute task group for NFPA 3 as a Standard. The same task group for preparing draft out to the committee with dates assigned before next meeting. All Committee members must provide feedback to the task group by Sept. 3, Task group to develop document and submit to staff for committee view prior to required dates. 54. Staff asked for show of hands volunteering to work on the task group Doug chair, John K, David F., Mike D., Cecil, Terry, David L., Joe, Pascal, Warren, Bob T., and Kim. 55. Chair requested show of hands that has issue with this becoming a standard none rose. 56. Discussed section A and financial interest if hired to do the work. 57. Discussed possible categories similar to NFPA 99 risk categories. 58. Discussion of too many acronyms. 59. Bob S. presented draft of letter to standards council for committee, chair and staff to consider. 60. Staff thanked committee for the work. If standards council approves as requested, likely a January 2014 meeting. 61. Meeting adjourned 4:24PM. (Agenda item 8) Page 3 of 3

4 Attachment A FIRST DRAFT MEETING NFPA Technical Committee on Commissioning and Integrated Testing Embassy Suites Indianapolis Downtown 110 West Washington St., Indianapolis, IN (317) Indianapolis, IN July 30 - August 1, 2013 AGENDA 1. Self Introductions of Members and Guests (8:00 AM 7/30/13) (Pilette) 2. Review of Distributed Meeting Materials (Klaus) 3. Approval of A2014 First Draft (San Diego Meeting) Meeting Minutes (Pilette) 4. Discussion on Commissioning Standards 5. Review of NFPA 3 Public Comments 6. Review of NFPA 4 Public Comments 7. Next Steps 8. Adjournment

5 NFPA 3 & 4 Technical Committee on Commissioning and Integrated Testing of Fire and Life Safety Systems (CMI-AAA) NFPA 3 & 4 A2014 First Revision Meeting September 11-13, 2012 Minutes of Meeting 1. Chair called the meeting to order at 8:00 AM, Tuesday September 11, 2012 at Courtyard by Marriott Downtown San Diego, CA. 2. NFPA Staff liaison, Matthew Klaus, introduced himself and self-introductions were made. 3. Attendance included: Principal Members Maurice Pilette, Chair Cecil Bilbo via Web Art Black Shane Clary Paul Dunphy Douglas Fisher Lawrence Forshner David Frable Kimberly Gruner David Hague Thomas Hammerberg John Hulett Robert Kasiski William Koffel Russell Leavitt Attachment B Principal members (cont d) Joseph Noble Warren Olsen Pascal Pfeiffer Rodger Reiswig Robert Schifiliti Kenneth Schneider Robert Tabet Frank Van Overmeiren Alternate Members Bruce Clarke Brad Cronin Joshua Elvove via Web Daniel Finnegan via Web Coy Kevin Hill Alternate members (cont d) David Lowrey Thomas Parrish Richard Roberts Mark Rochholz Randolph Tucker Terry Victor Matthew Klaus, NFPA Staff Liaison Guests Elena Carroll Dan Decker Michael DeVore David LeBlanc 4. Chair requested count of voting members present. 5. Chair referenced agenda for the meeting from the packet sent prior to the meeting. 6. Staff requested moment of silence for the remembrance of the 9/11/01 tragedy. 7. Staff referenced agenda and NFPA 4 Quincy draft distributed via prior to the meeting. He also provided and reviewed handout material provided to the committee members: An Introduction to the NFPA Standards Development Process booklet NFPA Re-Engineering Process Training Session Technical Committee First Draft Meeting V.2-3/13/2012, Spiral bound booklet Condensed version for voting purposes - 3 page Handout 8. Motion to approve meeting minutes from June 25-26, 2012 meeting made and seconded. Discussion regarding minute item #13. Committee determined to keep minutes as is. Minutes approved. 9. Chair communicated NFPA 72 NITMAM log 1015 on topic of Scoping, relating to Integrated Testing, passed at the June 2012 Association Technical Meeting. This was a successful Certified Amending Motion (certified NITMAM). 10. Staff moved to Agenda Item 4 New NFPA process. He stepped committee through the 3-page handout. There will no longer be a ballot on the individual PI. The ballot will be for the First Revision entirely. 11. Staff added the telephone connection to the conference. 12. Chair moved to Agenda Item 5 - Standardizing Commissioning (ASHRAE and NFPA 3). He requested a show of hands prior to discussion to determine whether to move forward as a Standard. There was a mixed result. Discussed that the document is to define how to Commission, not when. 13. Motion made to create a Committee Input (CI) with a proposed revision to make NFPA 3 a Standard. Motion seconded. This was created to request solicitation of public comments and consideration thereof to review at the 2 nd draft meeting. 14. Staff passed around the NFPA 3 Handbook for committee review. Staff acknowledged committee members that contributed to the document. Page 1 of 3

6 Attachment B 15. Discussion and encouragement for committee members to communicate with public and obtain industry comments/feedback on the CI regarding NFPA 3 as Standard vs. Recommended Practice that the committee will develop. 16. Call the question made and seconded. 14 voted for moving the CI forward, 8 against. Motion carried. Therefore a CI was created, First Revision (FR) # Created Task Group for developing text for FR #1 trial balloon, NFPA 3 as Standard vs. Recommended Practice. Doug Fisher chair, Mike DeVore, Cecil Bilbo, David Lowrey, David LeBlanc, Pascal Pfeiffer, Russ Leavitt, Bob Tabet, Bruce Clark, Terry Victor, Ken Schneider, David Frable. The task group has until November 30, 2012 to put language together as a Trial balloon to include for the public to view. 18. Moved through NFPA 3 Public Input (PI). Most PI s were addressed with large part of committee agreement with exception of Log #1 on section (12) to remove Warranty review. Vote 12 to remove 11 against. Motion Carried to remove. 19. Staff communicated that NFPA receives many questions from industry regarding Chapter 8 Recommissioning and Retro-commissioning. Doug Fisher volunteered to have the same task group for CI #1 address this point as well. They plan to discuss this item first. 20. Skipped Agenda item 6a. 21. New business discussion regarding NFPA 69 Standard on Explosion Prevention Systems - Kim Gruner created Public Input to that document regarding the use of the term commissioning. 22. A few motions to revise Annex figures were made and passed. First Revision (FR) comments were generated. 23. Chair moved to Agenda item 8 review of NFPA 4 Public Input. 24. Chapter 1 task group - Art Black reported no additions since Quincy meeting. 25. Staff referenced the Quincy Draft ed to Committee prior to the meeting. 26. Robert Schifiliti provided a brief presentation to the committee slides from his NFPA edition presentations. Emergency Control Functions, definitions, etc. NFPA 72 verifies performance of the switch or relay. Other documents provide verification of the other function (if the switch activates -does the device function?). Integrated results in combining the system tests together. 27. Chapter 3 task group Bob Schifiliti reported no additions since Quincy meeting. 28. Reviewed chapter 3 PI s. Log 77 - Mike Devore and Bob Tabet volunteered to work together on the Individual System definition. Tabled this one until the task group could work and provide suggest text. 29. Discussed terms common to both NFPA 3 and 4. Committee requested for staff to extract definitions used in both documents from NFPA 3 Commissioning. Staff agreed to do this. 30. Discussion on Test vs. Testing and Risk Analysis. 31. Day 1 meeting adjoured 4PM. 32. Day 2 meeting called to order 7:30AM. 33. Chapter 4 task group - Kim Gruner reported task group met and reviewed the Quincy draft. The task group requested committee discussion begin with Log 80. Discussion resulted in a motion to create a new section Test Frequencies, as PI submitter requested. Motion carried. This new chapter to identify mainly Triggers or WHEN testing is required. 34. Moved through Chapter 4 PI s. Call to question at one point before log Voted whether to include a specific number in the standard regarding periodic testing frequency. 14 voted for having either a number or safety net;11 voted against. Section tabled. Joe Noble volunteered to chair a task group to create text on this subject regarding Within 5 years of adoption of Test Plan or conduct Test Plan. Joe Noble chair, task group members - David Hague, David LaBlanc, David Frable, Warren Olsen, Doug Fisher, Robert Kasiski. 36. Chapter 4, Test Plan task group - Doug Fisher reported no added task group report. He worked through the Test Plan PI s. 37. Chapter 5 & 6 task group - Bill Koffel reported no added task group additions since the Quincy meeting. He worked through the Test Methods and Documentation PI s. 38. Discussion on Log 89 created an FR and discussed possible need for activity hazard analysis. 39. Day 2 meeting adjourned 4:25PM. 40. Day 3 meeting called to order 7:30AM. 41. John Hulett motioned committee to review text he created for relaxing the plan requirement for smaller installations, such as only two systems. Doug Fisher provided alternate text on this same subject in lesser wording. John withdrew motion as he preferred Doug s. Motion to accept Doug s Page 2 of 3

7 Attachment B start on revision to and The committee collectively modified the language and added that the testing still required. 42. Bob Schifiliti motioned to revise creating a new section 4.4 on Re-testing. 43. Joe/Doug brought up new section on Periodic Testing. 44. Staff asked to separate FR s on sections presented earlier that morning. Doug s on simple no plan required-separate. Bob s separated. Joe s kept together. Kim s separated. 45. Bill Koffel presented (old) Chapter 6 task group work. 46. Kim Gruner presented Chapter 4 annex material. 47. Doug Fisher presented Chapter A Motion to create a new Annex B Integrated Test Plan and forms. B.1 Sample Test plan, B.2 Sample forms. B3 Examples. Doug to send the unlocked pdf files to Matt for including in the 1 st Draft material. To be discussed by committee at November teleconference. 49. New material brought up on simple project annex and reference individual standards for the detail. 50. Bill Koffel presented Chapter 5 and 6 annex. 51. Bob Schifiliti presented Chapter 3 and associated Annex. 52. Discussion about the new process and the software. NFPA website pages. Tutorials. 53. Discussed comment stage view and the ability to comment on new material. Plan is to not put in a button to the left. Currently view 1 st Draft first then use it to go back to the Comments to determine if new info or not. If needed Global comment can be done for doing this. 54. Discussion regarding Task group work. Determined to keep same groups for now to review 2 nd Draft. 55. Conference call will be scheduled to report on the items created day 1 and 2 of this meeting. Determined week after Thanksgiving, Nov. 25th, AM, plan for 3 hour meeting. If you can t make the call track change comments and send to Matt. Trial Balloon for NFPA 3 for becoming a standard. Couple of pages of work. Retro-commissioning and Re-commissioning work. Forms and test plans for NFPA Viewed dates. Travel file will not be posted until conference call completion in November. Comment closing May 3, 2013 meet prior to October 13, nd Draft meeting determined, Indianapolis, IN July 30-Aug 1, Meeting adjourned 3:06PM, Thursday, September 13, Page 3 of 3