Report on Comments F2005 Copyright, NFPA NFPA 211 Report of the Committee on

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1 Report on Comments F2005 Copyright, NFPA NFPA 211 Report of the Committee on Chimneys, Fireplaces, and Venting Systems for Heat-Producing Appliances Robert V. LeClair, Chair State of Maine, ME [E] Robert A. Rucker, Secretary CMS Industries, Inc., NY [M] James R. Eddy, New England Fire Cause & Origin, Inc., NH [SE] Glen Edgar, Selkirk LLC, OH [M] Royal Edwards, National Chimney Sweep Guild, FL [IM] Rep. National Chimney Sweep Guild David Fetters, Hart & Cooley, Inc., MI [M] Filippo Gavelli, Exponent, Failure Analysis Associates, MD [SE] Charles H. Gibbons, Jr., Lampert-Lee & Associates, WI [SE] Vickie Hodges, State Farm Insurance Companies, IL [I] Marek Kulik, Flex-L International Inc., Canada [M] Roy A. Meacham, Underwriters Laboratories Inc., WA [RT] Anthony R. O Neill, Boothbay Harbor, ME [C] Richard D. Peacock, US National Institute of Standards & Technology, MD [RT] Shaun Ray, Metal-Fab, Inc., KS [M Rep. Gas Appliance Manufacturers Assn. Inc. Michael L. Savage, Sr., Middle Department Inspection Agency, Inc., MD [E] Christopher R. Schulz, Van-Packer Company, Inc., IL [M] Christopher B. Shiver, Cerny and Ivey Engineers, Inc., GA [SE] Paul B. Stegmeir, Faribault, MN [SE] Richard L. Stone, Quincy, CA [SE] Lindley D. (Butch) Sutherland, Jr., Vermont Department of Labor & Industry, VT [E] Benjamin V. L. Weathersby, Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association, VA [M] Rep. Hearth, Patio, and Barbecue Assn. Alternates Tammy Lynn Bitting, Van-Packer Company, IL [M] (Alt. to Christopher R. Schulz) James P. Brewer, Magic Sweep Corporation, VA [IM] (Alt. to Royal Edwards) Rick Curkeet, Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc., WI [RT] (Voting Alt. to Intertek Rep.) Jack H. Goldman, Hearth, Patio, & Barbecue Association, VA [M] (Alt. to Benjamin V. L. Weathersby) Paul W. Moody, State of Maine, ME [E] (Alt. to Robert V. LeClair) Keith Page, Hart & Cooley, Inc., MI [M] (Alt. to David Fetters) Robert J. Zimmerman, Jr., Underwriters Laboratories Inc., IL [RT] (Alt. to Roy A. Meacham) Nonvoting Janet Buyer, US Consumer Product Safety Commission, MD [C] Staff Liaison: James D. Lake Committee Scope: This Committee shall have primary responsibility for documents on fire safety for the construction, installation, and use of chimneys, fireplaces, vents, venting systems, and solid fuel-burning appliances. It also shall be responsible for documents on clearances of heatproducing appliances from combustible materials and terms relating to chimneys, vents, and heat-producing appliances. This list represents the membership at the time the Committee was balloted on the text of this edition. Since that time, changes in the membership may have occurred. A key to classifications is found at the front of this book. This portion of the Technical Committee Report of the Committee on Chimneys, Fireplaces, and Venting Systems for Heat-Producing Appliances is presented for adoption. This Report on Comments was prepared by the Technical Committee on Chimneys, Fireplaces, and Venting Systems for Heat-Producing Appliances, and documents its action on the comments received on its Report on Proposals on NFPA 211, Standard for Chimneys, Fireplaces, Vents, and Solid Fuel-Burning Appliances, 2003 edition, as published in the Report on Proposals for the 2005 November Meeting. This Report on Comments has been submitted to letter ballot of the Technical Committee on Chimneys, Fireplaces, and Venting Systems for Heat-Producing Appliances, which consists of 22 voting members. The results of the balloting, after circulation of any negative votes, can be found in the report

2 Report on Comments F2005 Copyright, NFPA NFPA Log #4 Final Action: Reject ( ) COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: , RECOMMENDATION: Delete proposed new as follows: Open front masonry fireplaces shall be permitted to use listed residential type and building heating appliance chimneys without the type HT designation. SUBSTANTIATION: Chimney sweeps inspect and sweep thousands of these units each year. It is our experience that many of these units are heavily used each heating season and much creosote is deposited in the venting system. Wood stoves are often installed into these fireplaces. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Reject COMMITTEE STATEMENT: The committee wishes to keep the language in the standard, however the committee does not agree entirely with the substantiation of the proposal and therefore would like the record to indicate the following language as the committee statement on this issue. This is another exception to the Type HT chimney requirement that is implied and has been granted in most cases BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: Log #3 Final Action: Accept in Principle (11.2.7) COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: , RECOMMENDATION: Add to the end of : A nonferrous metal damper may be installed at the top of the flue. SUBSTANTIATION: Over the past 25 years and continuing today, there have been many top mounted aluminum dampers installed at the top of the flue. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Accept in Principle Accept the proposed language but move it to a new paragraph COMMITTEE STATEMENT: To comply with the NFPA Manual of Style. BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: 17 Negative: 1 EXPLANATION OF NEGATIVE: MEACHAM: We are voting negative on Comment (Log #3) for the following reasons: 1. There was no technical justification provided by the proponent to support the nonferrous damper at the top of the flue. There was no analysis of temperature differences at the top of the fireplace opening and at the top of the flue. The fact that such dampers have been installed, in itself, is not technical justification. 2. If the ROC action is affirmed, the addition of would result in a required ferrous damper located at least 8 in. above the top of the fireplace opening and an optional nonferrous damper permitted at the top of the flue. Both dampers would need to be operable from the room containing the fireplace. The Committee Action changed the intent of the proponent s recommendation and the result may be unintentional. We believe the proponent and committee intended a single nonferrous metal damper located at the top of the flue to be permitted in place of and not in addition to the required ferrous damper. Based on the ROP action, and the probable ROC action the text of the document will read as follows: Dampers Masonry fireplaces shall be equipped with a ferrous metal damper located at least 8 in. (203 mm) above the top of the fireplace opening Dampers shall be installed in the fireplace or at the top of the flue venting the fireplace, and shall be operable from the room containing the fireplace A nonferrous metal damper may be installed at the top of the flue Damper controls shall be permitted to be located in the fireplace Log #2 Final Action: Accept (11.3.2) COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: , RECOMMENDATION: Delete new as follows: When the bottom of the firebox opening is raised at least 8 inches above the top of the hearth extension, a hearth extension of not less than 3/8 inch-thick brick, concrete, stone, tile or other approved noncombustible material shall be permitted. SUBSTANTIATION: The proposed wording implies to this writer that if the base of the fireplace room opening is raised 8 inches above the hearth extension, the 3/8 inch thick noncombustible material could be placed directly on combustible material as is commonly done with factory built fireplace hearth extensions. Is that the intent of the committee? Raising the bottom of the firebox opening 8 inches can be achieved simply by adding three or so courses of brick across the front or by installing a glass door with an 8 inch bottom frame. The firebox floor would remain even with the hearth extension. Heat conduction issues would become important. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Accept BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: 17 Abstain: 1 EXPLANATION OF ABSTENTION: WEATHERSBY: Upon reflection, I see no purpose in defining hearth extension thickness: section specifies that there can be no combustible materials beneath the hearth extension. What then, is the purpose of a minimum thickness requirement for the hearth extension, whether it is level with or below the fireplace opening (or fireplace floor)? I agree with committee action on deleting , but for different reasons than the committee s substantiation. In my opinion, the entire new paragraph serves no purpose other than a failed attempt at uniformity with other codes. It may, in fact, cause confusion since it implies the presence of combustible materials under the hearth extension Log #1 Final Action: Accept (A ) COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: , RECOMMENDATION: The committee stated the sizing tables in NFPA 31 are to be deleted. The NCSG Rep on NFPA 31, John Pilger was told by NFPA staff liaison Robert Benedetti that he was unaware of any such plan. SUBSTANTIATION: The flue sizing charts for stainless steel liners and cast in place liners in NFPA 31 are widely used in the United States for relining masonry chimneys venting oil-burning equipment. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Accept BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: 18 COMMENT ON AFFIRMATIVE MEACHAM: We are unclear of the change recommended by the proponent and accepted by the committee. If the recommendation accepted by the committee is to reverse the ROP action and accept the ROP Proposal (Log #7) identifying Tables from Appendix E of NFPA 31 as one of the approved engineering methods identified in A , we agree with the Committee Action

3 Report on Comments F2005 Copyright, NFPA NFPA Log #CC1 Final Action: Accept (Figure A.11.2) SUBMITTER: Technical Committee on Chimneys, Fireplaces, and Venting Systems for Heat-Producing Appliances COMMENT ON PROPOSAL NO: , RECOMMENDATION: Revise the second figure to show the clearances associated with an interior chimney. See Figure 2 - Interior Block Chimney below. SUBSTANTIATION: Both figures show exterior chimneys, it would be more helpful to the user of the standard to provide information pertaining to an interior chimney. COMMITTEE MEETING ACTION: Accept BALLOT RESULTS: Affirmative: 17 Abstain: 1 EXPLANATION OF ABSTENTION: WEATHERSBY: While illustrations of masonry fireplace and chimney details are sorely lacking in the current standard, there are insufficient useful details shown in this illustration and Figure A.11.1, and terminology is inconsistent with the text (eg., clearance to construction, hearth slab thickness). Splay Flashing Flue lining Wall thickness Clearance to construction Clearance to construction Smoke chamber Firebox wall Hearth Hearth extension Hearth slab thickness Figure 2 - Interior Block Chimney 211-3

4 FORM FOR FILING NOTICE OF INTENT TO MAKE A MOTION (NITMAM) AT AN ASSOCIATION TECHNICAL MEETING 2005 FALL REVISION CYCLE FINAL DATE FOR RECEIPT OF NITMAM: 5:00 pm EST, November 10, 2005 If you have questions about filling out or filing the NITMAM, please contact the Codes and Standards Administration at FOR OFFICE USE ONLY Log #: For further information on the Codes and Standards-Making Process see the NFPA website ( Date Rec'd: Date Name Tel. No. Company or Affiliation Address Street Address City State Zip 1. a) NFPA Document (include Number and Title) b) Proposal or Comment Number c) Section/Paragraph 2. Motion to be made. Please check one: (See also 4.6 of the Regulations Governing Committee Projects) (a) Proposal (1) Accept. (2) Accept an Identifiable Part. * _ (3) Accept as Modified by the TC. (4) Accept an Identifiable Part as modified by TC.* (b) Comment (1) Accept. (2) Accept an Identifiable Part. * (3) Accept as Modified by the TC. (4) Accept an Identifiable Part as modified by TC.* (5) Reject (6) Reject an Identifiable Part.* (c) Return Technical Committee Report for Further Study (1) Return entire Report. (2) Return a portion of a Report in a form of a proposal and related comment (s). (3) Return a portion of a Report in the form of identifiable part(s) of a proposal and related comments (s). (Identify the specific portion of the proposal and the related comments below)* * Clearly identify the Identifiable Part(s) indicated above (use separate sheet if required). 3. I am entitled to make this motion in accordance with of the Regulations Governing Committee Projects, as follows: (check a, b, or c). a) This motion may be made by the original submitter or their designated representative, and I am the (if you check (a) indicate one of the following): I am the Original submitter, or I am the submitter s designated representative (attach written authorization signed by the original submitter), or I am an Organizational Member delegate permitted to represent the submitter on behalf of the Organization Member in accordance with (c). b) This motion may be made by a Technical Committee Member and I am a Member of the responsible Technical Committee. c) This motion may be made by anyone. (Form continued on next page) (-1-) NITMAM form (continued) August 2005

5 4. Comments or Clarification (optional): This NITMAM will be reviewed by a Motions Committee. In addition to determining whether your Amending Motion is proper, the Committee may take other actions as described in 2.3 of the Technical Meeting Convention Rules as follows: Restating and Grouping of Motions. Upon request or on its own initiative, and in consultation with the mover(s), the Motions Committee may: (a) restate an Amending Motion to facilitate the making of a proper motion or to clarify the intent of the mover; and (b) group Amending Motions which are dependent on one another into a single Amending Motion. Dependent motions are motions that the mover(s) wish to be considered by the assembly and voted on as single up or down package. In addition to the foregoing, the Motions Committee may take such other actions or make such other recommendations as will facilitate the fair and efficient consideration of amending. The NFPA Staff may contact you to clarify your motion or to consult on the permitted actions in 2.3. If you have any comments, suggestions or requests of the Motions Committee as it reviews your NITMAM and considers actions permitted in 2.3, please provide them below. (Use additional sheet if necessary): Name (please print): Signature (Required) (Note: This NITMAM will be reviewed, and if proper, your Amending Motion will be certified in accordance with the Technical Meeting Convention Rules and posted on the NFPA website by December 9, Documents that have Certified Amending Motions will be considered at the June 2006 Annual Meeting Technical Committee Report. In order to have your Certified Amending Motion considered at that meeting you must appear, sign in, and make the motion as prescribed in the Convention Rules). PLEASE USE SEPARATE NITMAM FORM FOR EACH AMENDING MOTION YOU WISH TO MAKE, Mail to: Secretary, Standards Council, National Fire Protection Association, 1 Batterymarch Park, Quincy, MA NFPA Fax: (617) (-2-) August 2005

6 Extract from the Regulations Governing Committee Projects 4-5 Notice of Intent to Make a Motion Requirement of a Notice of Intent to Make a Motion. In order to make any amending motion permitted by 4-6.5, at a Technical Committee Report session, the intending maker of a motion must file a Notice of Intent to Make a Motion in accordance with this section, and comply with the sign-in requirement for certified motions prior to the technical session in accordance with 2.7 of the Convention Rules Filing of Notice. The Notice shall be filed with the Council Secretary by the deadline established in accordance with Any Notice of Intent to Make a Motion received after the filing date shall be returned to the submitter, unless the Motions Committee determines, in its discretion, that it can reasonably consider and act on the Notice in advance of the timely publication of the final Motions Committee Report and Updated Association Meeting Agenda (see 4-5.7, and 2.5 of the Convention Rules). A submitter, by written request to the Council Secretary, may withdraw the Notice of Intent to Make a Motion before the established deadline. Thereafter, the Notice of Intent to Make a Motion cannot be withdrawn without the approval of the Motions Committee Who May Submit the Notice. The Notice may be filed by anyone who meets the requirements of for making the motion that is the subject of the Notice Content of the Notice. Each Notice shall include a precise description of the motion to be made in accordance with 4.6.6, and shall identify the maker of the motion and provide such evidence as may be necessary to establish that the person so identified has properly met the requirements of Association Technical Meeting Consideration of Motions. When a Technical Committee report on a document receives at least one notice of intent to make a motion that is certified in accordance with the Technical Meeting Convention Rules, it shall be presented for membership action at an Association Technical Meeting in accordance with 4-6 and the Convention Rules (including the sign-in requirements of 2.7 of the Convention Rules) No Notice of Intent to Make a Motion Received. Where no notice of intent to make a motion is received and certified in accordance with the Technical Meeting Convention Rules, the document shall be forwarded directly to the Standards Council for action in accordance with Publication of Updated Association Meeting Agenda. Following the established deadline for the filing of a Notice of Intent to Make a Motion and any necessary review and action by the Motions Committee, the Agenda of the Association Meeting shall be updated to remove any Technical Committee Reports that, by reason of no proper Notice of Intent to Make a Motion having been filed, will not be presented to the Association Meeting. The updated Agenda shall be published on the NFPA website and, as time permits, in NFPA News, and other appropriate media. August 2005