Carpenter January 3, 2008 HELD ON. DAY & DATE: Thursday, January 3, 2008

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1 RECORD OF DECISIONS Competitiveness, Training & Trade CARPENTER PROVINCIAL TRADE ADVISORY COMMITTEE HELD ON DAY & DATE: Thursday, January 3, 2008 TIME: PLACE: 9:00 a.m. 12:00 pm York Avenue Winnipeg, Manitoba Room 1010, 401 York Avenue PTAC Member Suggestion Box: Telephone: (204) Winnipeg MB R3C 0P8 Facsimile: (204) of 6

2 CARPENTER PROVINCIAL TRADE ADVISORY COMMITTEE IN ATTENDANCE ORGANIZATION Member Type VOTE - NO VOTE Randy Wiebe PCL Construction Chair, Employer NV David Schoor Dominion Construction Company Inc. Employee V Rod Wiebe Construction Association of Rural MB Employer V Bruce Sworyk Bird Construction Employer V Wayne McLennan Manitoba Council of Carpenters Employee V Gerry Harms Dominion Construction Company Ltd. Employer V REGRETS ABSENT Troy Nepinak, Member STAFF Mike Brasseur Anne Janes Sherri Pickering POSITION Apprenticeship Training Coordinator Policy Analyst PTAC Administrative Assistant 2of 6

3 17.1 Welcome and Introductions Randy Wiebe, PTAC chair, welcomed everyone to this meeting. Round-table introductions followed Call to order Randy called the Carpenter PTAC meeting to order at 9:09 am 17.3 Approval of Agenda Amendments: Mike Brasseur requested addition of item under New Business entitled Right to Title Approval of Carpenter PTAC minutes dated November 16, Contact Information The Carpenter PTAC s contact list was circulated to provide the members an opportunity to advise the Branch of any updates to their contact information Correspondence Four pieces of correspondence were received in support of keeping the practical exam. Discussion continued regarding the expectation of more Business Arising Apprenticeship Training Coordinator Update Mike reported that capacity for fall scheduling has been met. The growing numbers require alternatives such as MOTION Motion to approve the Carpenter agenda dated January 3, 2008 with the addition. M: Wayne McLennan S: Gerry Harms Carried. MOTION: Motion to approve the Carpenter PTAC minutes dated November 16, M: Rod Wiebe S: Bruce Sworyk Carried. The PTAC Clerk will update the Carpenter PTAC Contact List per their input at this meeting. The PTAC Clerk to copy all letters for Chair. Open/ Fwd. 3of 6

4 -Mike Brasseur, ATC Trade Regulation Wages - Anne Janes, Policy Analyst Rational for Retaining Practical Examination afternoon and evening classes has to be looked at. Requests have been made for two level one classes in Brandon; one or two classes in The Pas, and Dauphine kept open as overflow. Should the numbers of Apprentices continue to rise they could hit The PTAC is reminded that there are spaces for all called to Technical Training. However, if someone turns it down they could end up waiting. Industry may be confusing Apprenticeship and Pre-employment programs with their assumption of unusual amount of waiting time. Anne reported that the Construction Industry Wages Act committee meets in two weeks. There will be a presentation and discussion on information previously requested, following this it will come back to the PTAC. The process should be fairly simple as the discussion is based on a request for additional information. For the Board meeting on January 16, 2008 the Chair has asked committee member Wayne McLennan to attend with him. The Committee has requested Anne let the committee know of the official decision. The committee had two ad hoc meetings regarding the rational for retaining the Practical Exam. It was agreed that valid arguments have been made and are reflected in the previous minutes. The arguments of the PTAC include: Practical exams provide the benchmark to evaluate competencies of the carpenter. There has been no documentation of any argument against keeping the Practical exam. Industry is solidly behind the Practical Exam. The Practical determines the math and the Anne to inform the committee of the Board decisions from the January 16, 2008 meeting. The chair requests copies of all letters that come regarding the retaining of Practical Exams. 4of 6

5 Rational for Up-Grading the Practical Examination 17.8 New Business Right to Title Mike Brasseur handiwork. Practical is more important than the written. The written narrows the competencies. Gives false notion that this is all I need to know. Written assessment relies solely on honesty. Arguments from the Board seem to be: People who are passing the written are passing the Practical. When there are clear indications of previous experience, why question? If told they qualify, why the need to prove they qualify? The committee believes it should be recommended to do the Practical up front which would provide a more valid process to writing. The Committee discussed the review of the Placement Exam. Mike reminded the committee that the exams are separate issues and should not confuse the issues. Mike presented the concept of Right to Title. He stated there is a two tier system of carpenters. Those who hold a Certificate of Qualification or proficiency and those who acquire the skills of a trade by working in the trade for a period not less than six years. MOTION: The Carpenter PTAC recommends to the Apprenticeship and Trades Qualifications Board that: the Carpenter PTAC undertakes a review of level one and two placement exams for updating. M: Gerry Harms S: Wayne McLennan Carried MOTION: The Carpenter PTAC recommends to the Apprenticeship and Trades Qualifications Board that: the Carpenter PTAC will pursue the 5of 6

6 Mike suggests elimination of the second category. He states it is not eliminating those who want to work in the trade. We will have one class, and that is certified. Right now under the act, non-certified covers a wide array of people. With Right to Title there will be a distinction of those who are certified and not certified. Clear definition on national standards a Carpenter is needed to rescind the two tier system. The commission at looking as specialization. concept of Right to Title as a single tier approach to recognition for Carpenter. M: Gerry Harms S: Wayne McLennan 17.9 Next Meeting Date/Future Agenda Items The tentative next meeting date is March 11, Future items: - ATC update - PDC Update - Placement Exams - Correspondence - Contact Info Adjournment Meeting adjourned at 12:04 p.m. MOTION Motion to adjourn: M: Rod Wiebe S: Gerry Harms Carried. Minutes Recorded by Sherri Pickering, PTAC Support Clerk 6of 6