X12C Subcommittee Minutes ASC X12 Committee Meeting February 4-9, 2001 Seattle, WA. Tuesday 6 Feb 2001

Transcription

1 X12C Subcommittee Minutes ASC X12 Committee Meeting February 4-9, 2001 Seattle, WA X12C Full Subcommittee Meetings were held Tue 6 Feb 2001 and Thu 8 Feb Meeting opened at 09:00 1. Introductions 2. Membership Report 28 primary; 8 alternates 3. Minutes Horton Sorkin moved approval Bob Miller seconded Tuesday 6 Feb 2001 Last time's minutes were marvelled over for their volumn Vote: F 12, O 0, A 0 4. Steering Committee Report Mon 8-11 Webmaster team meeting tonight 5-6pm in the update centre; see Mike Rawlins or John McGinnis. DISA unhappy with ColdFusion, using new version 2 balloting software, no cookies. DISA is looking at subcontracting out electronic distribution of the standard. Peter Pruyne is working on getting N to support free table data. J's new task group, PATG has asked for representation from each subcommittee in helping deriving rules for approving models. William Kammerer volunteered on the grounds that it was a fine thing to do. Wednesday 3-6pm, Room 416. PITG has dramatically simplified the modelling process for use by X12 and will be presenting this Tuesday 2-6pm. Lisa Shreve provided more details. In general, C has historically been staunch opponents to the compulsory modelling process but this represents a move towards our position. PITG has also started working with other lettered subcommittees which also addressed some of our concerns.

2 The CSG seems to be of the mind that it would be better and/or more efficient to spin up a new body to handle ebxml work rather than hand it to an existing group (EWG). X12 seems to feel this is patently false. Discussion about the need to preserve domain knowledge. Discussion about whether it was appropriate for the X12 members to be disenfranchised from the X12/EWG joint meetings because there would be meetings at ebxml where many X12 and EWG members are not represented. Mike Rawlins explained some background to the possible continuation of ebxml after Phase 1 completes in May. Mike outlined one principle problem in that it has always been X12's position that the leadership is elected rather than appointed by sponsors. Bob Miller made the case that the ebxml work should terminate and be inherited by a successor organization. Oasis has possibly started a competing technical committee which CEFACT members of ebxml are unhappy about. Motion proposed by Bob Miller: Subcommittee C makes a recommendation that X12 takes a position that upon completion of the 18 month ebxml workplan, the work be transitioned to existing standards bodies (in particular the core component and business process work to the joint X12/EWG work effort). Seconded Mike Rawlins. F 14, O 0, A 0. The XML schedule for meetings has been revised. SC has tasked PIG to include dealing with EWG and XML work in their thoughts. Barring fireworks at PRB, as of Friday Subcommittee E will be dissolved. C has been offered the 864 TS and indicated acceptance. 5. Liaison Reports Nothing to report 6. Federal Government Report (James Wooten) A host of new ICs for 4030 are in the pipeline and are expected to be approved by March 2. A new functional group to deal with grants has been started. A batch of new Ocean ICs have been approved, including some at release No comment as to why a pre-4010 TS is being implemented now given the govt's fuss and bother about forcing 8 character dates as mandatory (except ISA) in All working groups are having their charters rewritten to include XML so that the work can be transitioned into XML. There is lots of political infighting between various government employees all wanting to be 'King of XML'. There is no current interest in EDIFACT as people are now focusing on XML. 7. Old Business a. DMs and (Size of Loop IDs) J did not approve the changes to reduce length of unbounded LoopIDs in some transaction sets, but did accept the change to reduce the bounded LoopIDs to 4 characters to comply with X12.6. This will be addressed in the TG/TG2/TG4 meeting this afternoon. There was a side discussion concerning the overlapping scheduling of the X12/EWG

3 XML meetings with mainstream X12 meetings, thus disenfranchising many X12 members. Peter Pruyne will bring this up at the Open Forum on scheduling Tuesday afternoon. b. RfI Bob Miller outlined the reasons for the RfI and the proposed letter that had been written. Motion to approve as written proposed by Bob Miller, seconded by Bob Crowley. Straw vote - should the last answer be expanded to say why X12.6 should not be changed. Vaguely approved. Vigorous discussion concerning the meaning of 'No' and the wordings in the answers. Various passages of X12.6 were quoted, plus SD2. We took a break before continuing the discussion. Motion changed to approve as amended. Much heated debate. Mike Rawlins called the question: F 12, O 2, A 0. Motion was approved: F 12, O 3, A 1. c. DM Approved for forwarding to X12J as amended by Subcommittee F. Motion William Kammerer; seconded Bob Miller; F 15, O 0, A 0 d. DM Deferred until the submitter has responded to J's comments Motion Jonathan Allen; seconded William Kammerer; F 15, O 0, A 0 e. DM Approved for forwarding to X12J. Motion Jonathan Allen; seconded William Kammerer; F 15, O 0, A 0 8. New Business TG1 has been disbanded by Chairman's fiat following the resignation (from X12) of TG1's chair. All documents and work will be divided between the other subgroups, and a general re-organization to concentrate most documents in TG2, most messages in TG4 and the rest as necessary. To increase participation in getting C work done, Peter Pruyne asked for volunteers to 'own' documents and transaction sets on an informal basis. A document editor would have certain responsibilities on an informal basis for answering questions, coordinating work and reporting to full C. 9. PRB Matters DISA have found some old documents in the basement and requested a status update. Debate followed and the document was marked up for

4 return to DISA. Bob Crowley reported the full set of Subcommittee E's transaction sets - only 864 is destined to come to Subcommittee C. A new RfI was submitted and assigned to William Kammerer. 10.TG5 Report Five new 'real' DMs were received. Four affect the 824 and have been processed. One has been assigned to TG6. Four 'administrative clean up' DMs were received. DM was withdrawn DM 00[4567]100 are all in progress Meeting recessed at 12: Rec. Secy Pro tem.,jonathan Allen jonathan@mirror.demon.co.uk Barum Computer Consultants Voice: Fax: Thursday 8 Feb 2001 Called to order; the meeting is scheduled from 8 noon. X12C Documentation Responsibilities Mike Rawlins X12.59 and semantics paper Jonathan Allen 242, X12.56, IC Compliance Guide, 997, DATRAK, IMPDEF Bob Crowley X12.58 and tutorial Donna Wright DIRDEF, DATRAK, IMPDEF RFI on ISA security field send to PRB. TAS Changes added to DM Mike Rawlins moved, Betty Hailey seconded, to approve X12 Listserves All X12C listserves will be rolled up into a single X12C listserve, all individual WG memberships will be collapsed. John McGinnis, of DISA, will be asked to handle this

5 listserve maintenance. Mr. Pruyne will send out a message on the X12C listserve when this has happended effective within a week of this meeting. TAS Report Mr. Jonathan Allen reported TAS is miffed with us re: X12.6 not in sync with Design Rules re: unique names. (DM ) TAS has design rules draft (DM ). Mr. Mike Rawlins will construct verbiage of DM for X12.6. TG2 reporting comments revived in TAS for 824 is in process. TG4 824 DMs voted out, with F sharing coordination; approved for ballot. DM dissenting, 31 Approvals for publication thus, the longest running DM battle has concluded! TG4, as favor to J, did work on Code source 22: States and outlying areas of U.S., to point to ISO Affected elements will be changed to reflect provinces in addition to states. (Mr. Allen and Mr. Pruyne) The all blank ISA02/04 Request For Interpretation (PP786) approved by TAS. A new Request For Interpretation regarding CR/LF affects X12.6. TG6 Bob Crowley is working on 2 DMs, which are relatively large. DMs and DM Update to FA (997) tutorial: how to use 997s; add 998 update to new version, etc. TG6 open items must include latter DM update tutorial. Edit in X12.58 will include stuff for tutorial. DM will be taken to TAS today by Mr. Joe Slater. Mr. Slater reported on DM 003CLN which involves name changes for the XML white paper, cleaning up identical names. 2 elements belong to us. Mike Rawlins moved, CLN OIR, 1690 have the same name: Object Ref Identification. Mike Rawlins, Bob Miller moved, Approved CLN security value: conflicting names. Rawlins moved, Crowley seconded, CLN. Numbered data elements conflicting with business type data elements. DM Rawlins moved, Bob Miller seconded changing loop Ids withdrawn, DM Ack Flag for GS for 997. We rejected the DM. Bob Miller moved, Wm. Kammerer seconded, moved to reject DM by Verna Schulz withdrawn. TED segment changes included in another DM. DM to shorten length of Loop ID from 6 to 4. F approved DM we need to stop deferring it. DM Bad loop Ids 155 LM/LQ for unbounded loop and in TS 353. We no longer have an interest. Miller moved, Berwanger seconded, Approved DM Blanks in ISA security and authorization fields. Jonathan Allen has a business case for negative control numbers in the ISA. DM Tutorial 997 update remains deferred. DM XML naming DM remains deferred. Joe Slater reported on DMs in TAS that were approved, rejected and deferred.

6 Mike Rawlins gave TG3 Report. Nothing on open PPs - might kill them in June. On open work item list 409, : old work under which TG3 working on. Mike Rawlins said Ed Shaw s white paper will be proposed as a X12X/TG4 (XML) Marketing and Awareness (MAE TG4/WG2) Tutorial. Miller and Rawlins will put the paper out on the listserve, and we direct the chair of X12C to forward it to X12X TG4 MAE. Ralph Berwanger said that the members of the Steering Committee need to read this document it s a really nice paper. Ed Shaw inserted short paragraphs on need for historical continuity. X12C approved , ordering Mr. Pruyne to take the paper to STc, XML MAE, and listserve. Not to be progressed as a Technical Report, DM will be withdrawn by MR, joint with F. TG3 Lisa Shreve helped reconcile ebxml CC naming convention documents. TG3 reviewed the ebxml Reg Rep specifications. Discussion led by Rawlins on how X12 forwards its comments. Rawlins described the ebxml RR information model. Bob Miller will forward to X12C listserve re: Reg Rep comments, but Berwanger has process concern: ebxml doesn t care whether comments come from an individual like Mike Rawlins or X12C. Two glaring problems with Reg Rep re: intrinsic and extrinsic objects, But nothing about Core Components. Nothing to support due process for EWG and X12 in the Reg Rep. Are we empowering Mike Rawlins to talk on these due process points? Rawlins wants to write up something on due process. Bob Miller agrees that ebxml Reg Rep would not pay attention to X12C. If they don t, then we should raise as a serious concern that they can t manage an open standard international standard! We should remind Stc to make the same comments. X12 should keep sending comments, though Berwanger emphasizes that a comment is simply a comment. Rawlins moves to authorize himself to make comments, Berwanger seconded, approved. Bob Miller wants Pruyne to talk to STc re: this issue, approved TG3 report finished. Gloria Outlaw presented with a certificate of appreciation for12 years ( ) of service (and cookies). Lisa Shreve joined us after break. Distrib. X12 XML requirements. BP-CC workgroups working on related and complimentary subjects. She s meeting with PATG on process modeling, and meta-model group. Approach is to show small rep example to show context of detail to create top to bottom to achieve closure. There has been so much convergence since November. Plan we re constructing rep example to create example of sufficient complexity. There were two different business process in different domains in the core component discovery document, one for education and another for death registration. In registration example, registration authorities and parties include decedents with physical chars, and students which are tracked. Vital statistics would have been a better name for death registration. Use this example illustrating and testing. Is this TG3 work. In X12X TG4, C signed up as the arm for technical needs we provide input into ebxml. How will this be used in X12? X12X/PITG POC for X12 (vital

7 statistics). Input into BP-CC, Karsetnis here harmony? Between X12 and BP folks. In Tokyo there were political barriers, CC-BP were allowed to do work could exchange ideas. CC is focused on data modeling, BP on process. In Tokyo, objectives started converging. Tons of progress reported per Lisa Shreve, Paul Levine, and Jim Clark. Karsten Riemer excited by approach. At end of Tokyo Jim Clark said we finally converged. Per Ralph Berwanger, work we re doing here moves to ebxml. TG3 has evolved. EWG and X12 have been working together on core components in Seattle, Vancouver, and in Washington DC EWG. A TAS moment, interruption by Joe Slater; following exceptions to BNF Tas didn t like what that said. They want us to explicitly mention the rules. We can change to right padding to min length. These blanks are significant and may not be suppressed. We can defer don t have to do at this meeting. Which rules apply. Bob Miller: Let it go for now tell tech assess that we re going to do further work on it. We now have X12 XML requirements, a very important document. STc committee tasked X12/X/PIG to work with Process and Procedure to assist joining EWG-X12 development of ebxml core components. Peter Pruyne had concerns such as when there is no process for aligning EDIFACT and X12, no approval voting, no resolution procedures for the core components. PIG and P&P are going to work with their EWG counterpart on developing resolutions for joint initiatives. X12C needs a motion, Mike Rawlins motioned to amend and approve the resolution, and have Peter Pruyne vote yes at the StC. Our StC has P&P and PIG for EWG aligned procedures. This is a message to those in ebxml who want to disenfranchise EWG and X12. Passed There is a disconnect between EWG e.g., modeling is mandated in EWG. X12 XML req. 3.2 Procedural Requirements: open and accountable, Ralph Berwanger pointed out some conflicts between way X12 does business perpetually free is the conflict. RB wants to keep the document safer. Page 9 editorial comments need to be removed to change to make into a requirement document. ANSI vs. CEFACT see page 10. Mike Rawlins said this document (X12X/TG4 XML Workgroup Requirements) was cut and pasted from ebxml requirements. If significant changes are required, then this will be delayed to June. Peter Pruyne, StC didn t want it delayed, may Be.9 version??? How to define scope (Es )? Soap-box not requirements (PP). It is unfortunate that at this late date we have to make changes, per Peter we ll vote No at StC, Bob Miller moved, Bob Crowley seconded, passed Question was how to fix and come back in June, this puts a burden on David Barkley. This is a product of a STc work group. If revised and want to get into public view, how to get X12C to approve- we could announce on listserve with straw poll. Scott Colthurst from X12N would do the revisions in absence

8 of Mark Crawford. Ed Shaw has problems also refer to section 2.2 on Pg. 8 (A2A is app to app). What s X12 XML (ES)? X12C white paper referred to what paper? Mike Rawlins stated that web site changes will happen by April, there would be a way to post agendas at our web site. There were complaints about getting minutes posted before the web site changes. Now you ll be able to take minutes and convert them to a web form. DISA, however, has had problems with Cold Fusion. With Kit (Christopher) Lueder s absence, we need TAS alternate, who must attend interim meetings. Tia Scott is a member of TAS and could be an alternate in a pinch. Gloria will ask Tia, and chair can appoint. editor s comments, this was discussed with Tia and she accepted. Peter Pruyne showed us the PIG chart for the St. Louis meeting describing when full C will meet and when Task groups will meet. There was discussion of keeping TG5 on Sunday. This is the time for joint DM people to see us. We decided one hour was sufficient, 8-9 PM on Sunday. Adjourn. Transcribed from rough draft by Donna Wright of William Kammerer s notes, June 5, 2001.