Level 10, 20 Bridge Street. Organisation Title Name Day 1 1 Day 2. Mr Adam McDean O O. Mr Adrian Tootell P P. Mr Alex Ezrakhovich P P.

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1 Page 1/10 Committee Number Committee Name QR-008 Quality Management Systems Meeting Number 59 Meeting Date(s) Wednesday 27 & Thursday 28 August 2014 Start Time Location 9.30am Wednesday, 9.15am Thursday Standards Australia Level 10, 20 Bridge Street Sydney NSW 2000 Chair Secretary Darryl Yaniuk Joan Beal Attendance / Apologies / Constitution Organisation Title Name Day 1 1 Day 2 Association of Accredited Certification Bodies (AACB) Bureau of Steel Manufacturers Australia (BOSMA) Joint Accreditation System of Australian & New Zealand (JAS- ANZ) Mr Adam McDean O O Mr Adrian Tootell P P Mr Alex Ezrakhovich P P For Information Mr Ashok Safaya O O Department of Infrastructure and Regional Development (Australian Government) Mr Bob Seow A A Sub-committee QR Mr Brendyn Williams P P Consumer s Federation of Australia Mr Darren Margerison P P Royal Australian Chemical Institute (RACI) (CHAIR) Dr Darryl Yaniuk P P NZ Organisation for Quality Ms Diane Baguley U O University of Technology (UTS) Dr Doug Davis P P Independent Mr Graham Dibdin P P Sub-committee QR Ms Hope Kidd P P Attendance Key: 1 (A) Absent, (D) Deputy Attended, (O) Apology, (P) Present, (U) Audio

2 Page 2/10 Griffith University Dr Johan Veltmeyer O O Engineers Australia Mr Joe Fonseka O O Materials Australia Ms Kerrie Christian P P Independent Prof Kevin Foley P P Sub-committee QR Ms Kirsty Hope P P Australian Organisation for Quality Mr Lou Magritzer P P Australian Prudential Regulation Authority Observer from OB-007 (committee for Risk Management) Ms Mary Beirman A A Mr Michael Parkinson O O Australian Industry Group Mr Mike McLean P O Information Systems, Audit and Control Association (ISACA) Convener of QR and QR Mr Paras Shah O O Mr Paul Bryant A A University of Canterbury, NZ Mr Pavel Castka A A Joint Accreditation System of Australian & New Zealand (JAS- ANZ) Mr Peter Lee O P Pharmacy Guild of Australia Mr Peter Reeves P O Engineers Australia Mr Rod McGregor O O NSW Department of Housing Mr Shan Ruprai O O Materials Australia Mr Warren Geering A A Observer (Young Leader) Mr Beer Opatsuwan P P Standards Australia Ms Joan Beal P P 1 Opening of the Meeting The meeting was opened at 9.35am. Committee members introduced themselves. 1.1 Apologies The Chair announced the apologies. John Wood has stepped down as Consumer Federation of Australia s representative and the Chair would like to thank John for his valuable contributions to QR-008. Darren Margerison is the new CFA representative.

3 Page 3/ Emergency procedures The Project Manager, J Beal outlined the emergency procedures. 1.3 Confirmation of the meeting purpose and agenda The purpose of the meeting and the agenda were confirmed with no additional changes. 1.4 Confirmation of the minutes of 58 th Meeting The committee accepted the minutes of the last meeting. Previous Action Items Status 1 HB 90.3 J Beal to check on status of this publication Open 2 J Beal to contact QR-006 Chair and to compose submission for PMG to request QR-006 be incorporated into QR Proposal for the revision of HB 139 to be drafted by D Yaniuk and circulated to the committee and to SA for approval as a new project. On-going Approved and closed 4 J Beal to submit ballot supporting goods & services by 25 February. 5 J Beal to forward K Christian s to Varant to show support and discuss the possible re-constitution of MB-007 (bearing in mind that more non-it people ought to make up that group). Also, TC 176 would be a liaison group. 6 J Beal to request a meeting with Bronwyn before 13 February for A Ezrakhovich and D Yaniuk to discuss the promotion of the revised draft of ISO Discussion of Action Items 2 A Ezrakhovich strongly supports the incorporation of QR-006 into QR-008. J Beal confirmed that once their current project is finalized, she will move to the next stage of this discussion with Standards Australia management. 5 J Beal will provide an update from the National Sector Manager on developments with the NWIP (new work item proposal) on Knowledge Management. K Christian and B Williams both confirmed that they have colleagues interested in participating on this project. 6 Standards Australia did not respond to the suggestion of hosting seminars for the publicity of ISO 9000 and 9001, but a lot of certifiers are doing this, including SAI Global.

4 Page 4/10 Action items Action Who When Status 1 Discuss with SA management and QR- 006 the proposal to join with QR Provide an update from the National Sector Manager on developments with the NWIP (new work item proposal) on Knowledge Management J Beal October Open J Beal ASAP Open Current work items 4 Preparation of an Overarching Management Systems Document (Project ). Report of activity from Doug Davis Discussions 1 J Beal spoke to the committee on the schedule for this project, noting that work on the newly approved revision of HB 139 will not proceed until this handbook is finalized. The project has been active for two years and there has not been sufficient progress. J Beal urged the committee to note the importance of finalizing this project. 2 D Davis presented an update to the committee. He has ed a draft to the committee but hasn t received any responses. Discussion was held regarding the purpose of the project to identify the stakeholders who can impact an organization significantly if their wants and expectations are not satisfied. 3 The committee discussed the idea of breaking the project into two parts one shorter version to address the theoretical side and a longer version to address the implementation of this theory. There is also a possibility for a 3 rd part to address auditing. K Foley suggested using the content of his book Creating and Managing the Sustainable Organization (2009) as a base for the handbook, confirming to J Beal that he was happy to surrender intellectual copyright to Standards Australia. 4 D Yaniuk confirmed that he is keen to see the shorter version put out ASAP and suggested submitting another project proposal for a longer version which will rely heavily on the Foley/Zahner book. G Dibdin and B Williams both queried the practicality of this. 5 J Beal noted that a significant amount of work is still required and suggested cancelling this current project, starting afresh for the proposal period next February and to concentrate on the newly approved revision of HB 139 in the meantime. This way, the scope of the HB for Quality Management in the 21 st century will be properly revised,

5 Page 5/10 clearly defined and endorsed by QR-008. D Yaniuk further explained the need for committee members to work on an initial draft to accompany the proposal Decisions 1 The committee agreed to cancel Project and to re-submit a proposal in February 2015 (Proposal period will be open from 2 February 18 March 2015) Action items Action Who When Status 1 Work to be undertaken to re-draft a proposal for a Handbook for Quality Management in the 21 st century, as well as a first draft of the text D Davis & K Foley Before proposal period next opens in February 2015 Open 2 Seek industry support of the project proposal QR-008 Before proposal period next opens in February 2015 Open 3 Send to committee with a list of current ISO TC 176 projects for the benefit of new members D Yaniuk ASAP Open 4 Cancellation of Project J Beal ASAP Open 4.2 Report on TC 176 Working Group Meetings (Alex Ezrakhovich & Kevin Foley) Discussions 1 K Foley spoke to his report on his SC2/WG24 meeting in Dublin last June. He was disappointed at the small number of attendees. The WG are revising ISO 9002 (guidelines for ISO 9001). ISO 9002 replaces ISO and is separate to ISO A set of tasks was allocated (refer to table in Report on ISO TC176.pdf ). K Foley is responsible for reviewing Clauses 5 & 10. This small group is well led with a number of new members. D Yaniuk also expressed his disappointment with the small group considering the importance of this project. A Ezrakhovich clarified that the meeting clashed with CASCO s meeting which impacted the attendance. A Ezrakhovich also mentioned that

6 Page 6/10 the experts allowed on this project are limited and should not be. K Foley agreed that this participation is problematic. 2 The committee appreciates the importance of ISO 9002 in relation to how ISO 9001 is used. D Baguley commented that consultants would benefit from more education in this area. 3 Regarding the meeting to resolve comments for ISO 9000, K Foley is unhappy with the results. He reported that the document was hurried and the meeting finished a day early. The document that has been circulated since the meeting is not the same as that under discussion at the meeting. He continued to state that it is badly written, poorly constructed and the next steps are uncertain. D Yaniuk agreed that the comments of the national committee reflect these sentiments. A Ezrakhovich commented that QR-008 needs to be thorough in their comments on the revision of ISO 9000, so that their negative vote might carry as much weight as possible. He added that a negative ballot will meet with criticism from TC 176 SC2, and that political issues continue to affect work. 4 Refer to A Ezrakhovich s meeting document Paris Report. Following the April meeting in Paris, the draft of ISO 9001 was finalized for DIS via remote access meetings. It was then released as a DIS in July. TC176/SC 2 will meet again in Galway in November to finalize all comments received from the public comment period Action items Action Who When Status 1 Update the committee on the revisions to ISO 9002 following the upcoming meeting in Galway, November. K Foley Next QR-008 meeting Open 4.3 Preparation for Meetings of SC1 and SC2, Galway, Ireland in November Discussions 1 The subcommittees working on the revisions of ISO 9000 and ISO 9001 will be meeting in November, in Galway, Ireland. A Ezrakhovich and K Foley will be attending. Meetings for the revision of ISO 9002 are TBC. These meetings were originally to be held with the TC 176 Plenary in Tel Aviv, Israel, but were relocated due to escalating conflict in the region. The relocated meetings will not include a Plenary for the main committee. D Baguley will be attending on behalf of New Zealand, including the coordination meetings on the Saturday and Sunday. D Yaniuk stated that the Australian viewpoint to be expressed at these meetings will be discussed further tomorrow.

7 Page 7/10 2 ISO 9001, Clause Changes during operations: D Baguley would like to request that the wording unplanned change and this clause be deleted, because the issue is already covered in Clause 8.1 and could be used in a draconian way by adversarial auditors. Also, the use of maintain and retain require clarification on their use in Annex A they re not indicating requirements. A Ezrakhovich commented that this is a problem for translating to other languages (both words mean the same thing) and these terms are already interpreted as requirements. A Ezrakhovich recommends using only maintain. D Baguley will take this under consideration. It s possible that 9000 will have to go to another DIS. One proposal to have one page of definitions only for ISO 9001 and refer to ISO s definitions (refer to online browsing platform weblink: 3 No other input was received from committee members. 4.4 Approved Project Proposal: Handbook on Integrated Management Systems (Revision of HB 139) Discussions 1 J Beal presented a kick-off PowerPoint to the committee. The committee stated that HB 139 cannot be issued for peer review until the publication of ISO 9001 and which directly affect the content. Refer to Kickoff Presentation QR-008 Project for confirmed schedule. 2 The committee discussed the need for HB 139 to be a gap analysis; that it needs to address how a management system handles safety, environment and quality. Discussion was held regarding the differences between a clause based document versus a process based document. M McLean referred to the findings of a recent accident investigation in a major petroleum company. The results showed that the company had management systems in place, but not integrated with each other. 3 K Foley mentioned the Business Processes Management Journal to the committee for their reference Decisions 1 The committee agreed that the drafting team for the revision of HB 139 include: Michael McLean (as convener), Alex Ezrakhovich, Kirsty Heron and Hope Kidd, with Brendyn Williams and Adrian Tootell as contributors

8 Page 8/ Action items Action Who When Status 1 A Word document version of HB 139 to be provided to the working group 2 Meeting documents to be uploaded to Hub for committee reference J Beal ASAP Open J Beal ASAP Open 4.5 Upcoming ISO ballots for the revision of standards: , 10013, and & Discussions 1 Revision of these documents will commence at the forthcoming meeting of TC 176 and its subcommittees. The committee reached consensus on the ballot responses that is, to fully revise each standard Action items Action Who When Status 1 N352 of SC3 to be ed to QR-008 D Yaniuk ASAP Open 2 Post ballots for revisions to , 10013, and & J Beal ASAP 4.6 Preparation of Australian Comment for revisions of ISO/DIS 9000 and ISO/DIS Discussions 1 ISO 9000 Quality Management Systems Fundamentals and vocabulary The committee discussed the received comments for these drafts, with changes tracked in as shown on Final Australian Comments on DIS 9000 Sept 14 (uploaded to Hub) 2 Discussion was held on the scope and proposed changes to Clause 2.2 (Fundamental Concepts) to better reflect the scope. Unresolved issues were noted from this clause some re-writing will be required for Clauses (Interested parties); & should be deleted as they are not concepts.

9 Page 9/10 3 The Chair noted that discussions on ISO 9000 would conclude at the end of Clause 3 in order to allow time to discuss ISO Any further comments from committee members on 9000 would need to be sent in the next week, otherwise the comments as shown would be submitted to ISO. 4 ISO 9001 Quality Management Systems Requirements The committee managed to address all 19 pages of comments. Refer to comment template Final Australian Comments on DIS 9001 Sept 14 (uploaded to Hub) Action items for revision to ISO 9000 Action Who When Status 1 Clause (research interested parties vs stakeholders) 2 Diagrams needed to support definitions/inter-relationships 3 Ballot on products and services A Tootell to check (QR-008 voted for goods and services in Feb 14 see last minutes) 4 Review Clause (ballot vs. rationale) 5 Organizational Sustainability as a benefit of QM QR-008 By 5 QR-008 By 5 A Tootell By 5 D Yaniuk By 5 B Williams By 5 6 Definition of Risk M McLean By 5 7 The committee agreed to record a negative vote on DIS 9000 D Yaniuk/J Beal By Mid 8 The committee agreed to record a positive vote with comments on DIS 9001 D Yaniuk/J Beal By Mid Next meeting Date Time Location January or February 2015 JB <hh.mm> to <hh.mm> <Room>, <Level>, <Location>

10 Page 10/10 to send Doodle page (include Alison Scotland on Doodle) Other business Aged Standards: The committee enquired about any other publications which may have passed the 10 year mark since their last review conducted in Action item Action Who When Status 1 Confirm if any other QR-008 standards need an aged review (refer to J Beal ASAP Open spreadsheet from Chelo Morales). Meeting close The meeting closed at 4.30pm Other documents that form part of these minutes: Notice of Meeting and Agenda Report on ISO TC176.pdf Meeting Report Paris(4).doc Checklist for integrated System.pptx Final Australian Comments on DIS Sept 14 Final Australian Comments on DIS Sept 14 Disclaimer: If no objections are received within 1 month of distribution of these minutes, it will be assumed that they are a true and correct record.