The Ministry of Justice Framework Agreement for Language Services... One Year On. Survey Findings

Transcription

1 The Ministry of Justice Framework Agreement for Language Services... One Year On Survey Findings Date of Publication: 4 March 2013

2 Contents Executive Summary... 1 About this survey... 3 Respondents Breakdown of Respondents Membership of professional interpreters associations Languages represented by respondents... 5 Survey Results The National Register for Public Service Interpreting Membership of the NRPSI Registration with CapitaTI NRPSIs and CapitaTI CapitaTI registered interpreters Ex-CapitaTI interpreters Reasons for not registering with CapitaTI Direct Bookings Direct Calls in the last 3 months Acceptance of Direct Bookings Reasons for accepting direct bookings from courts Refusal of Direct Bookings Working with CapitaTI Accepting jobs from CapitaTI Number of assignments undertaken per week Quality checks on CapitaTI interpreters CapitaTI Tiering allocation The future for CapitaTI interpreters Interpreters planning to discontinue working with CapitaTI Interpreters unsure of whether to continue working with CapitaTI CapitaTI interpreters and the Criminal Justice Sector The future for NRPSI interpreters Incentives for working through CapitaTI under the Framework Agreement Most important criteria for a court interpreter Appendices Appendix A Responses to Q2: For which language(s) do you offer public servicing interpreting? Appendix B... 23

3 Responses to Q6: NRPSI reasons for refusing to register with CapitaTI Appendix C Responses to Q17: NRPSI Reasons for accepting direct bookings Appendix D Responses to Q23: CapitaTI registered interpreters reasons for not continuing to work with CapitaTI Appendix E Responses to Q23: CapitaTI registered interpreters reasons for being unsure of whether to continue working with CapitaTI Responses to Q14: Comments on incentives to work for CapitaTI under the Framework Agreement... 40

4 Overview Executive Summary This report reveals the findings of the online survey commissioned by umbrella group Professional Interpreters for Justice to mark the first anniversary of the Ministry of Justice s Framework Agreement (FWA) and outsourced contract with Capita which came into operation on 30 January Four in five refuse to join the Capita TI register A total of 859 interpreters responded to the survey and four in five of them (81%) stated they refuse to join the register operated by Capita for interpreting jobs in courts and other parts of the justice system, even though the contract has been in operation for over a year. These interpreters have strongly held views. They can t call a strike because they are freelancers. Their boycott however is not a simple matter of the lower rates of pay and expenses. They are principled individuals whose highest concern (85%) is that professional standards in public sector interpreting have been lowered. 84% feel the interests of justice are not served by the Framework Agreement and contract with Capita TI. Many stated they felt devalued and disrespected by the Ministry of Justice. 679 of the 859 interpreters who took part in the survey (79%) are on the National Register of Public Service Interpreters (NRPSI)* which provides and maintains the voluntary register for the interpreting profession. NRPSI ensures required qualification standards are met; the quality of interpreting is defined and maintained through a Code of Conduct; and that access to a database of professional interpreters is freely available for all. Capita TI registered interpreters dissatisfied too The interpreters who have registered with Capita TI (147 or 13% of the 859 who took part in the survey) were also dissatisfied. Over half said they were no longer accepting jobs and 42% stated they wanted to quit. Nearly half (47%) of those who are assigned to Tier 1 of the Capita TI register stated they were not asked to undergo any kind of assessment and 12% said they were not asked to supply evidence of their qualifications. These are breaches of the Framework Agreement terms. Some expressed frustration that they couldn t get onto the NRPSI because their qualifications and experience weren t good enough. High percentage of direct bookings shows contract is floundering 87% of the interpreters who are on NRPSI said they have been contacted directly in the last three months by various parts of the Criminal Justice System requesting their services. 58% stated they had been telephoned directly by Court clerks with urgent requests for them to attend because Capita TI has been unable to supply. The majority (81%) said they received one or two calls per week. These findings call into direct question the MOJ s published statements that there have been service improvements. Within two weeks of the FWA coming into operation the Ministry of Justice had told courts and tribunals to revert to using the NRPSI and National Agreement* for short notice bookings if Capita TI could not supply and there is clear evidence that this is still the case. 1

5 51% of these NRPSI interpreters stated they had accepted some of these urgent direct telephone calls from courts under terms and conditions of the National Agreement, showing this system is still in force. They gave reasons including better pay and conditions and the satisfaction with being valued as a professional. The overriding factor was that they wanted to avoid the risk of miscarriages of justice which occur if there is no interpreter for a defendant or witness who does not speak English as their first language. What does the future hold? 52% of all NRPSIs state that because of the FWA they plan to leave Criminal Justice System interpreting altogether in the near future if things don t change. For those interpreters who are registered with Capita TI and who completed the survey, the situation is similarly bleak, with 40% stating that they will leave interpreting altogether if things don t change. A consistent trend The high response rate to this survey is consistent with three previous surveys carried out by Involvis, which have provided evidence to support the parliamentary inquiries held by the National Audit Office, Public Accounts Committee and Justice Select Committee. Each survey has consistently shown that 80%-90% of qualified and experienced freelance interpreters who are on the NRPSI have not and will not register with Capita. The feelings are ingrained and show the Ministry of Justice that they have been misguided in believing interpreters can be persuaded to work under the FWA and Capita. It is also clear that the calls to review the FWA and the Capita contract are supported by the majority of interpreters in the profession. Dialogue with the Justice Minister These findings will be shared with Justice Minister Helen Grant MP as she considers her response to the recently published Justice Committee report (6 February), which describes the Ministry s handling of the court interpreters contract as nothing short of shambolic and said it failed to heed warnings from the professionals concerned. In September 2011, 98% of interpreters who took part in the first Involvis survey said they had not been consulted about the changes being made by the Ministry of Justice. They still haven t and the Involvis surveys remain the only source of independent evidence of interpreter opinions and the state of play in the Framework Agreement. *Background on the NRPSI and the National Agreement The National Agreement (NA) for the use of interpreters in criminal proceeding was introduced following Lord Justice Auld s Review of Criminal Justice in In 2006 a Home Office Circular reinforced the importance of the NA and the quality of interpreting services, and subsequent amendments were made to strengthen it, ensuring only registered and qualified interpreters on the NRPSI could practise in the Criminal Justice System. NRPSI was originally managed by the Chartered Institute of Linguists and since April 2011 has been wholly independent. The Justice Committee report, in its conclusions and recommendations (no.4), endorsed the value of NRPSI when it stated: there do not appear to have been any fundamental problems with the quality of services, where they were properly sourced i.e. through arrangements that were underpinned by the National Register of Public Service Interpreters. 2

6 About this survey This survey was commissioned by umbrella group Professional Interpreters for Justice (PI4J) and carried out by Involvis to mark the first anniversary of the Ministry of Justice s Framework Agreement (FWA). The survey questionnaire was completed online between January 29 th and February 10 th 2013 by a total of 859 public service interpreters. Professional Interpreters for Justice has ten member organisations representing over 2,200 NRPSI registered and qualified interpreters in 135 languages. Its aim is to work in partnership with the Ministry of Justice to safeguard the quality of interpreting services for the Criminal Justice System. The ten member organisations and contact s for each are as follows: Association of Police and Court Interpreters (APCI) - chairman@apciinterpreters.org.uk Chartered Institute of Linguists (CIoL) - keithmoffittuk@iol.org.uk Institute of Translation and Interpreting (ITI) - chiefexec@iti.org.uk National Register of Public Service Interpreters (NRPSI) - chairman@nrpsi.co.uk National Union of Professional Interpreters and Translators, part of Unite the Union (NUPIT) - nupit@unitetheunion.org Professional Interpreters Alliance (PIA) - info@profintal.org.uk Scottish Interpreters and Translators Association (SITA) - messagesita@gmail.com Society of Official Metropolitan Interpreters UK Ltd (SOMI) - board@somiukltd.com Society for Public Service Interpreting (SPSI) - chairman@spsi.org.uk Wales Interpreter and Translation Service (WITS) - wits@gwent.pnn.police.uk 3

7 Respondents 1.1 Breakdown of Respondents A total of 859 interpreters responded. Of these, 679 (79%) are on the National Register of Public Service Interpreters (NRPSI) which provides and maintains the independent voluntary register for the interpreting profession. Since 30 January 2012, however, the NRPSI has not been recognised by the Ministry of Justice which outsourced its justice sector interpreting requirements to Capita TI under a Framework Agreement. 147 of those who responded to the survey said they were registered with CapitaTI and of these, 89 are on the NRPSI. 55 of those who responded said they were ex-capitati interpreters and of these, 41 are on the NRPSI. 1.2 Membership of professional interpreters associations 4

8 1.3 Languages represented by respondents Respondents were asked to state which language(s) they offered public service interpreting in. The most common language represented is Polish (14%, (123)), followed by French (9% (83)), Russian (8% (75)) and Spanish (7% (62)). Albanian Arabic Bengali British Sign Language BSL Bulgarian Czech Farsi French Hindi Hungarian Indian Italian Kurdish Sorani Lithuanian Mandarin Pashto Polish Portuguese Romanian Russian Slovak Spanish Tamil Turkish Urdu Vietnamese Top twenty languages are as follows: Language Percentage % Number Polish French 9 83 Russian 8 75 Spanish 7 62 Urdu 6 53 Portuguese 6 52 Arabic 5 50 Punjabi 5 46 Romanian 4 40 Turkish 4 38 Mandarin 4 36 Farsi 4 35 Italian 3 34 Czech 3 29 Kurdish 2 23 Lithuanian 2 21 Cantonese 2 20 Dari 2 20 British Sign 2 18 Language Slovak 1 16 A complete list of languages represented can be found in Appendix A. 5

9 Survey Results 2. The National Register for Public Service Interpreting 2.1 Membership of the NRPSI Respondents were asked whether they were members of the NRPSI and to select the option that applied to their current status. Their choices were as follows: - I am currently registered with the NRPSI - I was previously registered with NRPSI but I discontinued by registration - I have never been registered with NRPSI The majority of respondents (79.2%) are registered with the NRPSI. 10.2% of respondents used to be registered with NRPSI and have since ceased their membership, whereas 11.1% have never been registered with NRPSI: 3. Registration with CapitaTI 3.1 NRPSIs and CapitaTI 81% (552) of NRPSI interpreters stated they are not registered with CapitaTI. 6% (41) of NRPSIs were previously registered with CapitaTI but have since withdrawn their registration. Of the 13.5% (89) NRPSIs who stated that they are currently registered with CapitaTI, only 6% (40) are accepting jobs, 1.5% (10) have never accepted a job through them and 6% (41) accepted some jobs previously, but are no longer accepting them: 6

10 3.2 CapitaTI registered interpreters 17% (147) of survey respondents stated they are registered with CapitaTI. See page 12 for a breakdown of CapitaTI interpreters who are currently accepting jobs under the Framework Agreement. 3.3 Ex-CapitaTI interpreters 6.4% (55) of survey respondents were previously registered with CapitaTI/ALS but have since withdrawn their registration. 47.5% (19) of these withdrew their registration within the first year of the Framework Agreement, with 32.5% (13) having withdrawn their registration within 6 months of the implementation of the CapitaTI/ALS contract. The period of registration for interpreters no longer registered with CapitaTI/ALS can be broken down as follows: Duration of registration with Percentage % Number CapitaTI/ALS Over 2 years 15 6 Between 1-2 years year or less months or less months or less month

11 3.4 Reasons for not registering with CapitaTI NRPSIs who have never registered with CapitaTI were asked to give their reasons for this. 88% (480) believe that the professional standards in public sector interpreting have been lowered, which they do not agree with. 86% (469) stated that they do not believe the interests of Justice are served by the FWA and Capita contract. This reason is closely followed by a fundamental disagreement with the introduction of the Framework Agreement and outsourcing to a single private contractor (85%) (467). Finally, 84% (460) of NRPSIs stated that the rates of pay/zero travel time payment/reduction of travel expenses make it unviable or unaffordable to work under the Framework Agreement. Respondents were asked to expand on any additional reasons they may have for refusing to register with CapitaTI. These ranged from disagreeing with the need for already qualified interpreters to be re-assessed and CapitaTI s lack of experience of court interpreting to the humiliating and insulting terms and conditions offered by the company. A full list of reasons given for refusal to register with CapitaTI can be found in Appendix B. 4. Direct Bookings 4.1 Direct Calls in the last 3 months 87% (557) of NRPSI interpreters stated that they have been contacted directly (either by courts, police, CPS or the Asylum & Immigration Tribunals (AIT) booking centre) for interpreter bookings within the last 3 months. A chart displaying a breakdown of those organisations making the most direct calls to NRPSIs can be found overleaf: 8

12 4.2 Acceptance of Direct Bookings The majority of NRPSIs are only accepting bookings from organisations which are not currently operating under the Framework Agreement and who have nothing to do with CapitaTI. However, around half (51%) of NRPSI interpreters asked said that they are now accepting direct bookings from Courts (250). 9

13 4.3 Reasons for accepting direct bookings from courts The main reasons for accepting direct bookings from courts can be broken down as follows (most common reason first): - Satisfaction with the pay and conditions for direct bookings because they are paid at similar rates to the previous system (i.e. the National Agreement) - Due to personal financial difficulties and needing some income - NRPSIs being approached directly feel their professionalism is being valued - A wish to avoid miscarriages of justice - To prove that NRPSI interpreters are professional and of a high quality A selection of examples to illustrate the above are as follows: I feel my professionalism is honoured Because otherwise an injustice will be done In the hope that the judges can see the difference in quality I do not wish to see a miscarriage of justice Because I am satisfied they want to use a good professional with experience and that is the reason why they contact me and pay me accordingly I need the work I am struggling financially A full list of reasons given can be found in Appendix C. Other organisations: 78% (38) of NRPSI interpreters are regularly accepting direct bookings from police forces not contracted to CapitaTI. 68% (337) are accepting direct bookings from solicitors and 64% (315) are accepting them from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), both of which are not currently contracted to CapitaTI. 10

14 93% (64) of NRPSIs will not accept calls from any police forces currently contracted to CapitaTI. 4.4 Refusal of Direct Bookings 18% of NRSPI interpreters stated that they refuse all direct bookings. The majority refuse them because of a fundamental disagreement with the Framework Agreement which they hope will be withdrawn and also because they do not want to help prop up CapitaTI, which would give the Ministry of Justice the impression that their system is working. Some of the most common reasons are as follows: I disagree with the damaging concept of the FWA I won t bail out CapitaTI by doing work they can t cover I don t want to support the current system No in principle...so the MoJ has a true picture of how effective the FWA is Professionalism suffers greatly in the current situation To accept as a fill in is to support the arrangement with CapitaTI 11

15 5. Working with CapitaTI This section of the report addresses the experiences of CapitaTI registered interpreters who responded to this survey. 5.1 Accepting jobs from CapitaTI Of the 147 respondents who are registered with CapitaTI, 48% (70) are regularly accepting jobs, 40% (59) accepted some jobs previously but are no longer accepting them and 12% (18) have never accepted jobs. 5.2 Number of assignments undertaken per week CapitaTI interpreters were asked how many assignments they undertake, on average, per week. The majority (78%) stated that they undertake between 1-5 assignments per week % (11) undertake between 6-10 per week and 3% (2) undertake between assignments per week. 12

16 5.3 Quality checks on CapitaTI interpreters 44.5% (57) of respondents who are / were registered with CapitaTI stated that they were not asked to undergo any kind of assessment of their interpreting skills before they were offered jobs. Surprisingly, 5.5% (7) of CapitaTI interpreters did not know whether or not they were asked to undergo any kind of assessment before they were offered jobs. 15% (19) of CapitaTI / Ex-CapitaTI interpreters stated that they were not asked to show evidence of their qualifications before being offered work and 4% (5) were not sure. The same number (15%, 19) said that they were not asked to supply evidence of CRB clearance before being offered work and 7% (9) were not sure. 5.4 CapitaTI Tiering allocation Respondents who are / were registered with CapitaTI were asked which Tier they had been assigned to. 76% (97) stated that they were assigned to Tier 1, 12% (15) were assigned to Tier 2 and 3% (4) were assigned to Tier 3. 9% (11) did not know which Tier they had been assigned to. 13

17 47% (46) of those assigned to Tier 1 were not asked to undergo any kind of assessment of their interpreting skills with a further 5% of Tier 1 interpreters stating that they were not sure whether they had been asked to undergo an assessment. 6. The future for CapitaTI interpreters This survey has indicated that the general feeling amongst CapitaTI registered interpreters is one of frustration and that the majority are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with pay/conditions, feel that they are treated like slaves by CapitaTI staff and have no other choice but to work for the company. Some CapitaTI interpreters admitted that they are unable to get onto the NRPSI or don t have enough experience, therefore can only work via CapitaTI: Until I get on NRPSI and will start getting bookings from other agencies I don't have much choice, I consider it a good training ground while getting ready for something better 6.1 Interpreters planning to discontinue working with CapitaTI (One reason given for continuing to work with CapitaTI) When asked, 42% (51) of interpreters who are currently registered with CapitaTI stated that, based on their experiences, they would not continue working with them under the FWA. 25% (30) were still unsure whether or not to continue working with CapitaTI. Reasons given for not wishing to continue working with CapitaTI were mostly related to low pay, lack of travel expenses, use of unqualified interpreters and the way in which CapitaTI treats its interpreters. For example: I learnt that they use unqualified people without CRB Because they booked me, the Tier level was 2 and I was told it was not legal, as it was a Magistrate and a Tribunal hearing... Very dishonest and sneaky of them The pay rates are appalling and they fail to pay anything at all for some assignments Disrespect towards interpreters, poor pay, poor customer service on the telephone, no trained communication, no prompt responses and it goes on and on and on... No the pay is horribly low, and the ALS people on the phone offering assignments are horrible too, once they left me more than 10 voice mails, some blank voice mails, and more than 10 calls per day. This is harassment A full list of reasons given can be found in Appendix D. 14

18 6.2 Interpreters unsure of whether to continue working with CapitaTI Of the CapitaTI interpreters who were unsure of whether to continue working with CapitaTI (25%), the majority said that they were either unhappy with the pay and conditions; needed the money and/or hoped that Capita increase rates and travel payment. Many also stated that they were on the lookout for alternative employment. For example: Will stop if I find better options/after I get experience Rates have dropped again. Will try to avoid them as much as possible and will work for them only when the job is local as "pocket money" or if I am completely desperate If they were to introduce acceptable rates of pay and cancellation fees and only use qualified & experienced interpreters Unfortunately this is the only option available for someone who still wants to work in PSI Hoping that Capita will improve terms and conditions to make it worthwhile to do interpreting work I am without work and I need to earn to live Not sure- pay rates are a disgrace Dependent on outcome of results of recent justice Committee Report & potential improved remuneration Payment is very poor. They do not respect me at all A full list of reasons given can be found in Appendix E. 6.3 CapitaTI interpreters and the Criminal Justice Sector In addition to above, 40% (53) of CapitaTI interpreters said that they intend to leave Criminal Justice Sector (CJS) interpreting altogether if things don t change (see overleaf). 15

19 36% (48) said that they intend to continue working partially within the CJS whilst undertaking other work necessary to supplement their income. In general, 37% of CapitaTI interpreters said that they would like to continue working within the CJS. 7. The future for NRPSI interpreters 52% (328) of all NRPSIs stated that because of the FWA they planned to leave Criminal Justice System interpreting altogether if things don t change. 23% (76) of those planning to leave CJS interpreting are reluctant to do so however, as they would like to continue to work in this sector. 42% (268) of all NRPSIs stated that they would like to continue working within the CJS in general. 28% (180) stated that they intend to continue working partially within the CJS whilst undertaking other work necessary to supplement their income: 16

20 8. Incentives for working through CapitaTI under the Framework Agreement All respondents were asked what incentives (if any) would tempt them to work through CapitaTI under the FWA. The majority (56%) stated that they could be tempted to work under the FWA if hourly rates / travel time / travel expenses were paid at a level that reflects the professionalism of the role. This was followed by if the National Register only is used to source interpreters (47%) and if a robust Code of Conduct is introduced (41%). 32% stated that they could be tempted if independent auditing of CapitaTI s quality standards and contract delivery are introduced and 29% said only if Tier 1 interpreters are used for all bookings. 24% stated that if Continuing Professional Development was mandatory, they could be tempted to work under the FWA. 37% of respondents stated that none of the incentives suggested would tempt them to work under the FWA. Respondents were also asked their opinions on the above incentives, with many stating that even if all of them were put in place, they would still not want to work for CapitaTI under the FWA, leaving comments such as: 17

21 Under the current Capita's Terms & Conditions, I have no intention to work through them at all. Never, ever. I would still not work for them. Last year demonstrated that none of the above could be trusted I do not believe that an FWA type system would ever satisfy any of the above incentives/requirements particularly in the long term Our profession cannot and should not be outsourced! Capita has no respect for our profession, and even shows contempt towards it I lost complete trust in Capita TI/ALS (who are unethical) to the point that even if they were forced to respect the points mentioned above they would find a loop and a way to avoid them. I refuse to work for Capita/ALS however I would not have a problem to work via an agency if all the above mentioned requirements are followed A full list of comments made can be found in Appendix F. 9. Most important criteria for a court interpreter All respondents were asked In your opinion, what do you think are the most important criteria for a court interpreter, to ensure quality and consistency in standards of work? 97.5% (507) stated that holding a recognised qualification, e.g. the Diploma in Public Service Interpreting (DPSI) or Metropolitan Police Test was most important. This was closely followed by registration with the NRPSI (selected by 90% of respondents). 87.5% (455) stated that holding a recognised, valid and up to date security clearance was important. 83.5% believed that prior experience of court interpreting was essential, e.g. at least 100 hours, as per NRPSI requirements. The ability to communicate well in both English and the other language and having proven written language skills in both languages were viewed as the least important, being selected by 83% and 78% of respondents respectively: 18

22 19

23 Appendices 20

24 Appendix A Responses to Q2: For which language(s) do you offer public servicing interpreting? Language Percentage % Number Polish 14% 123 French 9% 83 Russian 8% 75 Spanish 7% 62 Urdu 6 53 Portuguese 6 52 Arabic 5 50 Punjabi 5 46 Romanian 4 40 Turkish 4 38 Mandarin 4 36 Farsi 4 35 Italian 3 34 Czech 3 29 Kurdish 2 23 Lithuanian 2 21 Cantonese 2 20 Dari 2 20 British Sign Language 2 18 Slovak 1 16 Hindi 1 16 Mirpuri 1 16 Bulgarian 1 15 Bengali 1 15 Hungarian 1 15 German 1 15 Sorani 1 14 Ukrainian 1 13 Pashto 1 10 Sylheti 1 10 Tamil 1 9 Indian 1 9 Albanian 0 7 Latvian 0 7 Algerian 0 7 Vietnamese 0 7 Serbian 0 6 Somali 0 5 Gujarati 0 5 Dutch 0 5 Croatian 0 5 Moldovian 0 4 Thai 0 4 Hebrew

25 Pothwari 0 2 Welsh 0 2 Belarusian 0 1 Welsh 0 2 Lingala 0 2 Malayalam 0 1 Mandinka 0 1 Mende 0 1 Krio 0 1 Filipino - Tagalog & Pampango 0 1 Sinhalese 0 1 Swahili 0 1 Amharic/Tigrigna 0 1 Mauritian Creole

26 Appendix B Responses to Q6: NRPSI reasons for refusing to register with CapitaTI The National Register was set up to avoid miscarriages of justice by setting high standards and a code of conduct. It is scandalous to hear about unqualified people taking on this role with impunity. ALS ethics. Bad experiences. Working with ALS / CAPITA is degrading and insulting to an important profession All the above I believe that there might be something between ALS and Justice not disclosed, affecting the decision making of using the FWA to instead the old system. Good Interpreters are not easy to find and keep. ALS has not been independently regulated and/or monitored. I believe that this arrangement is destroying the profession and wasting many years of good work spent establishing a quality interpreting system and is nothing other than an attempt to bypass the checks and balances which took huge efforts to put in place. I also believe that this shows contempt and lack of care towards non-english speakers who pay their taxes and contribute so much to this country. On strictest principle I do not work for any private company. Because this agreement is disrespectful to our profession to say the least! The entire contract appears to have been awarded by devious, incompetent & arrogant MoJ employees who do not know in common with most civil service employees, what should be done and how it should be done! More savings could be achieved by halving the MoJ than by this interpreting contract. Some Thai interpreters from Capita cannot do the job properly or cannot do the job at all when attending Court. Some are house wives and wanted to do the job for experience! I did not like the ALS's approach when they tried to recruit me : "Register with us otherwise you will not work for the justice sector" The whole contract is a fiasco! Public Services interpreting does not seem to be perceived as a proper profession which need to be properly regulated as well. It would make redundant the NRPSI and the DPSI. the current deal is extremely unfair for service users, service providers, tax payers and professional interpreters CAPITATI is a corrupted organisation which is only motivated by making money hence keeping the contract AT ALL COST, including employing a maximum of people who are utterly incompetent, just so as to keep a "good image". Why have they been trusted to blindingly? I object strongly to their requirement for interpreters to be re-tested after they had worked hard to go through much more rigorous testing in order to qualify for the NRPSI and for membership of the CIoL. Frankly, I find this offensive! The MoJ have outsourced a front-line service. They have also outsourced the responsibility for that service. This is a dereliction of state duty. I do not know of Capita TI. Capita / ALS have no criteria for employing interpreters for the court system, so I do not want to be associated with individuals who present themselves in court as Capita / ALS interpreters and who in fact have no command of English language, yet alone of legal terms. Those Capita /ALS interpreters are a disgrace for the justice system in this country and they put their clients at a disadvantage, as the people they interpret for do not have a fair hearing / trial. I found the terms and conditions proposed by ALS humiliating and insulting. Risk to Return ratio is not right with working for Capita. Interpreters are expected to take too many 23

27 risks (loss of time, unpaid time in courts, capital losses due to journey expenses are not fully covered, wasted journeys and travel times without pay, company default risk - company not paying on time or the correct figures; risk of not getting work for weeks; missing other often better paid work opportunities etc) in return for such low gains. Their pay does not compensate enough for the level of risks taken. This itself suggests that the job is not a good investment in terms of investing our resources for i.e. our time, our energy and our money. No proper qualifications. No professionalism. Lack of basic ethics My extensive qualifications and experience is totally ignored by the FWA. I will never work for FWA. I have not work in this sector till the NA is re-introduced. CapitaTI is not interested in professionalism but only in making quick money by exploiting the interpreters and the Ministry of Justice. I have been interpreting for about 20 years, registered with NRPSI 12 years, I have DPSI in Law Option, but did not get that many jobs from courts anyway, only a couple in a month. So the system was not very good, it looked like same interpreters and from mainly MET list were booked for court interpreting. I was always praised for the work I did by the barristers, social workers etc., so I do not know why I could not earn enough to be able to buy even a cup of coffee, when I am out working. Now it got getting much worse. I invested all of my working life in it, and I suspect interpreting will not to be treated as a semi-skilled or skilled profession looking at the way things are going. I think I made a huge mistake 20 years ago, I wonder where I would be now, if I took up another line of work. I should not be surprised that we get pushed around, 95% of interpreters are not born in UK, self employed, completely isolated...who cares if you are skilled or semi-skilled, if they can get almost anybody to interpret 'a bit' in their spare time, or fresh ones from abroad with interpreting qualification, in any case for much less. I think the intention is anybody, students, educated housewives, taxi drivers in their spare time to do it for a while not needing to rely on it, or in between jobs, or until they wake up and move on if they want a real job, to be replaced. I really regret that I invested 20 years and cannot rely on it to earn enough to pay the bills. I started training for another job a while ago, hope to leave interpreting in 1 or 2 years. But looking at the current situation my hopes may be dashed and I might have to stay with interpreting. I worked for ALS on 2 occasions some considerable time before the FWA and they have proven themselves to be unreliable and inefficient. In addition, recently I have met certain interpreter sent by them to work in court, who was not even able to interpret to save her own life! I do not agree that a private, for profit organisation should be a monopoly and a regulator in a very important public service arena as this is contrary to the basic aims of the public service. The justice system is to provide justice and treat everyone equally. The arrogance we all have witnessed from Kenneth Clerk and MOJ officials clearly indicates they are corrupt, it could be financially or otherwise. Where I am treated with no respect for the work I do then it is not worth working for such a system. The Framework Agreement has replaced what was a perfectly good system. Changes to make savings could have been made by proper consultation with interpreters, their professional bodies and those who use their services. I am mainly a conference interpreter who used to do some public service interpreting. The rates, and mainly the possibility of last-minute cancellations with no compensation, have always meant that the work - however I like it - could not take precedence over conferences. It would not make any sense at all now for me. I would not like to be associated with the lack of professionalism displayed by Capita. It is indecent to imagine that anyone is best served by being presented with a second or third grade interpreter. They are using unqualified interpreters and I wish the system will return to previous arrangements Capita's T&C are unacceptable as a whole, not just the money side of things but also the precarity of the arrangement I am qualified, competent and experience interpreter and have worked over 12 years work experience as an interpreter and seeing what has been happening with our profession I became horrified. I do teach community interpreting and many of my former students are working for ALS - so what is going on with this professional. The NRPSI does not do anything. Prior to the FWA I was briefly registered with ALS and I de-registered because it quickly became 24

28 apparent it is a disreputable, dishonest company with no real knowledge or awareness of the language industry. To put it bluntly the company ethos reflects its founder - an ignorant, wide boy with no care for standards or professionalism, who is looking to make a quick buck. I believe they are a disgrace to the profession Millionaires have already and even now are trying to milk MOJ, No one is bothered about the standards and professional quality, Courts have been gagged, which is really a pity. Their insistence on further in-house testing even for NRPSI registered candidates is unjustifiable. Already some NRPSI interpreters speak incomprehensible English - what of Capita recruits? Capita contribute to giving the profession a very bad name. The way it all happened was wrong, and drove many highly capable professionals out of the profession. My particular case is that if I cannot find anything else by Spring time I rather do any other jobs to enable me to help a bit with the home income, but I refuse to offer my expertise and skills on exchange for the money paid at the moment. Apart from all the above I take it very personally. It is totally unexpected insult to my integrity. Most of us professional interpreters are British (Citizens) and we have the right to be seen as British despite the fact we were born elsewhere. I am suddenly getting very uncomfortable feeling that I am like any other migrant worker and therefore, like them, also suddenly expected to work part time and for minimum wage. Education and experience to be thrown out of the window. The message I am getting is take it or leave it. I still remember when even before letting the so-called East European migrants come in, the Home Office advertised in Metro the following: Do you want to earn money for talking? explaining to us protesting about the working of the advert that there will be a lot of interpreters needed in the near future. The future is here now. Even from the outset, it was abundantly clear that the Ministry of Justice had made a big mistake by awarding the contract to such an incompetent organization. A solution needs to be found that is satisfactory to all parties concerned while the skilled body of interpreters still exists. I was told that I will be assessed again and pay for it. I know nothing about them At some desperate moment I tried to register with them, but the system would not respond to me, despite the fact that there were several ads placed on a variety of websites. I do Not want join or embrace an intermediary/middle layer who compete and taken away my work assignments previously offered to me. I do not agree with outsourcing in general and the use of interpreting agencies in particular. I consider Wheeldon a liar and a cheat, do not condone his or Capita's methods and would never work with/for them. I care about my profession and its future. Foreign languages learning is in decline in this country and subsequently working in language related industries is not appealing to a new generation. It must change and soon. Computers are not yet able to replace an interpreter, translator, language teacher. Who will do these jobs in 5 or 10 years? This company does not give recognition to professional linguists. It is only interested in profit making and not serving the interest of Justice in the UK. I want to work lawfully as a registered professional interpreter in CJS (with recognised qualification and title) and I should be fully protected by law when doing this business in terms of personal data protection, employment status and incomes, insurance and non discrimination in any forms. It s very Unfair, we all know what happened to G4S and Prison service contracts that have failed The government wishes to remain unaccountable by outsourcing everything, Then blaming the company if something goes wrong. It is a form of privatization for justice which is against my ethics I'm against outsourcing in the public services. the arrangement devalues proper qualifications and experience and it is not working- it is obvious that the jobs are not allocated according to the tiers- it's just a body in court, nobody cares about the quality of interpreting, it's a meat market and I do not want to be associated with that kind of organisation and people working for it There are good agencies, indifferent agencies and poor agencies. I believe that Capita TI fall in the latter category based on all the information/comments in the public domain and speaking directly with 25

29 their 'interpreters'. There seems to be problems with payments; dispute resolution and organisation/administration; no CPD and they seem to be wholly unable to fulfil the contract to any acceptable levels (obviously ignoring the tripe coming out of the MoJ). I consider myself a professional interpreter and I am proud of my achievements in respect of my chosen profession - I would be embarrassed to be associated with this company and it is a crying shame that the amateurs that work for them class themselves as 'interpreters'. I had bad experience with ALS, and received anecdotal evidence which turned me against ever having more dealings with them. I do not like Capita s T&C in general - if the minimum callout rate was acceptable I would not mind zero travel time payment sense of solidarity with other interpreters I do not believe any money saved from the public purse, the FWA and its consequences are more costly and it will continue to be unless it is binned. To pay a third party is a waste of money. The NRPSI was formed to be the first port of call. I am really disappointed. The quality gone down for the sake of the quantity. ALS is like The Big Word which was awarded the immigration contract. I used to get the booking by my name for my professional interpreting, now this has gone to who speaks more wanted languages even if they do not have qualifications. The MoJ is a government (public service) department. It should not be outsourcing this type of work where nobody is held accountable, facts and figures are not collated and are manipulated and there is no quality and even less control of that quality. I worked really hard to become DPSI qualified and I feel disgusted with how agencies like this only care about money. I love my profession and I am not willing to do anything that I consider ethically wrong such as working for peanuts. I do not wish to be exploited by Capita TI/ALS I find the new Ministry of Justice arrangements and the FWA demeaning to the professional status of a legal interpreter. 26

30 Appendix C Responses to Q17: NRPSI Reasons for accepting direct bookings If I am free I accept to prove that the outsourcing is not working I have decided to finally accept them because I need to continue with my job as a professional interpreter yes Yes but only since December2012. Fair rate of pay Yes, if fee acceptable Yes, only from the Police forces not contracted to Capita TI Only for forces not contracted to Capita The Cambs Police book directly, for the last 6 months I received just 1 direct booking from courts and accepted it for financial reasons Yes, see answer before Mostly CPS as they have not gone over to CAPITA yet. UKBA as I have always worked for them Yes. From MET and BTP police only Only by police not contracted to Capita Yes because I am a professional and freelance Only qualified and vetted interpreters are used Yes, but only from Met Police and CPS, not from courts. Reason: if I accepted direct work from courts I would be helping Capita temporarily, but the aim is for the CPS to rescind the contract with Capita once and for all. Better terms and conditions Better rates, qualified interpreters being used in the interest of justice I am a widow and have 2 sons to support I negotiate and only accept professional rates I need the work Yes - Hardly any direct bookings received. Do not want to support ALS/Capita Yes, only from the Met Guarantees Court/other bodies will pay previous rate & acknowledge professionalism From the police Yes, this is my only source of income Only from organisations that haven't sold out yet Yes Because interpreting is my only job which I make my living on. Out of habit Yes, CPS bookings only Makes no difference from previous status Interpreting for the PSI sector is my job Clarity and ability to speak and resolve any issues regarding procedures, payments, any questions asked directly by people who know rather than somebody who has never been in court, police station etc. Able to explain my charges The HMCTS's payment is fair. Yes, to get a fair pay and respect I have no alternative means of income I only accept booking only the payments I mentioned previously As I believe in fair provision of service without commercial advantages 27

31 Yes, in order to stop other agencies and unqualified people stepping in I agree with the direct bookings as practised before Different rates of pay I need money unfortunately Yes Yes Yes as I need the income from these bookings. They only come once in a blue moon Because that is what I do, I am an Interpreter, got a BA degree in Translation and Interpretation, self employed, have DPSI in Law, full status NRPSI and CIoL and got my obligations as a Member of the Public to work and contribute within the Society where I leave and have no intention to apply for benefits. Only since Sept 2012 after boycotting for as long as I could. I accept direct bookings as I get paid NA rates. Yes, the police, CPS and the UK Border Agency have always contacted me directly, because I know that it is as usual. I am not in favour of ALS Direct calls is the prime way for me to get booked I accept direct bookings as well as agency I like this job. Most direct the least complicated It's a way of serving the society I live in I can discuss the wages and other information direct prior to the job. It is quicker. I am a registered interpreter so if somebody needs my services, I will take the job as long as the rates of pay are acceptable Yes, as the rates of pay are acceptable Yes, You know who is booking you, and both sides can ask for clarifications of anything that is not clear. I used to refuse until a month ago. Now I accept as a result of extreme financial hardship, to able to pay the bills. Each time I attend I announce that I am not a Capita interpreter and it should be recorded. Yes I need the work, and the working conditions are good (respect and timely payments) Because I trust the Courts, and know they pay well and promptly As police & CPS work is adequately remunerated. I do not accept direct calls from Courts I expect proper pay and courts also appreciate when we arrive at a short notice. Contacted directly that's why. I feel my professionalism is honoured Police only, pay still OK I'm paid as a professional interpreter Only twice in one year Better payment Because these are direct bookings and nothing to do with CapitaTI Local Police forces are working under previous arrangements (ACPO Guide lines / National Agreement). Have not received any enquiries of late from courts. Local Magistrates Courts appear to have been told that they must wait for ALS and are willing to accept adjournments. I need to work ( I refer to Police calls) Only working with met police and CPS. It is dignifying, respectful, quality assured and pays reasonably Yes because they pay the old rates Yes Yes, I do not believe in partial boycotts. We must not lose contact with the court listing offices 28

32 I wanted to work with them directly: better pay They either pick my name from NRPSI, or I had worked with them before Yes Better rates of pay Yes, because I know them and they know me Same terms Due to better terms and conditions For payment & standard Have done so for 10 years + I need the money and the police and courts need reliable and prompt services from a properly qualified interpreters Yes from CPS Terms and conditions ok From Met call centre, because we are on police data base. Since late May 2012 I have accepted direct calls as before the FA. The reason being that I am a public service interpreter and To work for solicitors, the MET and UKBA was not sufficient pay. But more important, I needed to keep practicing court interpreting. It was enough sacrifice to stop until late May Decent old rates still apply Because that is my income source Because CPS and AIT have no connection to CAPITA Yes if I'm free. Police and CPS not contacted to Capita As done before the FWA National Agreement applies I need the income Yes. Why not? That's how it was always done. Yes. If the provided terms and conditions can reflect the professionalism of the roles in the CJS. Yes. I would accept their Terms & Conditions as before. Yes because public service is my vocation, and I consider it my duty and privilege to serve CJS Worked for Courts, immigration, police, Border Agency for years. They know me and I know them and they can rely on my professionalism I need to work Yes if from police forces not contracted to Capita Yes - these are direct calls by organizations not yet involved in the framework agreement and in many cases are close to where I live, hence the work is convenient Work from solicitors & immigration, sometimes insurance investigation comp If CPS, solicitors, immigration and County Courts. I like to know whom I am working with Always do so Because I am satisfied with their hourly rate and travel time + travel expenses payments YES as long as I am sure they are not linked to Capita TI I need butter and bread on the table for my family and I also I need to work and would like to interpret. If one does not accept calls from Capita and Courts so one must have left the profession! Easier to manage Money I am paid well Need to maintain a minimum income and hope to keep my old clients, i.e. the Tribunal Service, the Police, the HMBA I need some work to do. Yes, provided they do not come via ALS or Capita By police forces NOT contracted to Capita TI. Need money for living 29