AGENDA BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL SURVEYORS AND MAPPERS RULES REVIEW COMMITTEE

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2 AGENDA BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL SURVEYORS AND MAPPERS RULES REVIEW COMMITTEE HILTON SAINT AUGUSTINE HISTORIC BAYFRONT 32 AVENIDA MENENDEZ ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA NOVEMBER 3, 2015 Immediately following Continuing Education Review Committee Members: Robin Petzold, Chair Frank Conkling Howard Ehmke I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL II. III. IV. REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF AUGUST 2015 MINUTES CHAIR S REPORT UPDATE ON WORKGROUP PROGRESS MADE THUS FAR V. DISCUSSION ON LETTER FROM GOVERNMENT SURVEYORS VI. VII. PUBLIC COMMENT ADJOURN Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 2 of 9

3 MINUTES BOARD OF PROFESSIONAL SURVEYORS AND MAPPERS RULES COMMITTEE HILTON COCOA BEACH OCEANFRONT SEASHORE BALLROOM 1550 NORTH ATLANTIC AVENUE COCOA BEACH, FLORIDA AUGUST 11, 2015 Immediately following the Continuing Education Review Committee The meeting was called to order by Robin Petzold, Chair, at 1:30 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Robin Petzold, Chair Frank Conkling Howard Ehmke OTHERS PRESENT Nickolas Fusco, Board Chair Jenna Harper, Executive Director Regenia Lee, Government Analyst Patrick Creehan, Board Counsel Courtney Frazier, Prosecuting Attorney Don Williams Deborah Hill Patrick Talbott George Grubbs Steven Hyde Nick Campanile Herman Williams Bill Rowe Pam Nobles Miguel Garay Alvin Gloer Earl Soeder Danny Williams Dale Bradshaw Jon Chancey Lamar Evers Marilyn Evers Edward Pac Jeffrey Cooner David Melvin Shirley Melvin Wilmer Mathews Renan Lopez de Azua Lou Campanile Donald Lambert Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers August 2015 Rules Committee Minutes Page 1 of 3 Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 3 of 9

4 Jesse Price Brian Rogers Chris Fowler Dustin Shenk REVIEW AND APPROVAL OF THE MAY 2015 RULES COMMITTEE MINUTES After discussion, the following motion was made: MOTION: Mr. Conkling made a motion to approve the minutes of the May 2015 Rules Committee with one correction on line 115. SECOND: Mr. Ehmke seconded. ACTION: The motion passed unanimously. MOTION: Mr. Ehmke amended the motion to approve the minutes of the May 2015 Rules Committee with corrections on Lines 115 and Line 110. SECOND: Mr. Conkling seconded. ACTION: The motion passed unanimously. CHAIR S REPORT Robin Petzold Mr. Petzold said that he attended both of the Rules Workgroup meetings. He said that the progress is good and we will see where it evolves in the next couple of workgroup meetings and discuss it at the next Board meeting. CLARIFICATION ON THE COMPOSITION OF RULES WORKGROUP MEMBERS; UPDATE ON RULES WORKGROUP PROGRESS MADE THUS FAR Mr. Fusco said that a workgroup was created by the Board but for numerous reasons, it was disbanded. He said that because the rules were in dire need to be addressed, the workgroup was re-generated by Board action. He said that some of the members of the original workgroup have changed because of their positions on the Board, personal reasons, etc. The workgroup had great discussion at the first meeting and completed approximately 31 rules. He said that the rules that would affect Chapter 472, F.S. were recognized in the beginning. The second meeting was a more in-depth discussion on what actually affects Chapter 472, F.S. He said that the charge from the Board was to identify problems, changes, etc. The next rules meeting will be held on September 3, 2015, in Ocala, Florida. Mr. Ehmke asked how the members of the workgroup were selected. Mr. Fusco responded by saying that the original membership has changed based on the availability of members. Mr. Fusco said that the bottom line was to protect the consumers in Florida by continuing the workgroup and we must agree to disagree so that we can move forward with the rules. He said that he realizes that are strong feelings on both sides of the fence but we must move forward. He said that the meetings are publicly noticed and he encourages attendance at these meetings. Mr. Petzold made a suggestion to finish going through 5J-17 and to simultaneously visit Chapter 472, F.S. Mr. Mathews said to keep in mind that when you change Chapter 472, F.S. that you are dealing with the Legislature and it s easier to change a rule. Mr. Ehmke suggested that the Board reconsider opening Chapter 472 to remove the photogrammetrist designation. He said that the two available photogrammetrists in Florida should be contacted to see if they would like to consider applying to become a Board member before changing the statute. Ms. Nobles said that the reason that there is one photogrammetrist designation on the Board is that in 1994 photogrammetrist became required to be licensed. She said that lines are becoming so blurred between what a land surveyor does and what a photogrammetrist does that it would be better served to remove the photogrammetrist designation from the statute. Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers August 2015 Rules Committee Minutes Page 2 of 3 Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 4 of 9

5 After discussion, the following motion was made: MOTION: Mr. Ehmke made a motion to adjourn the meeting. SECOND: Mr. Conkling seconded. ACTION: The motion passed unanimously. With no further business to discuss, Mr. Petzold adjourned the meeting at 2:15 p.m. Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers August 2015 Rules Committee Minutes Page 3 of 3 Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 5 of 9

6 Date: October 14, 2015 To: Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Service Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers RE: 5J17 Rules Revisions, Standards of Practice-Government Surveyor Prospective. Dear chairperson, members and executive staff, I/we are a regionally/local government professional surveyors in a liaison position directly or indirectly reporting to elected and administration officials and the public at large regarding the profession of Surveying and Mapping. By virtue of our employ I/we are directly involved in many aspects of Surveying and Mapping, related interest and responsibilities including but not limited to; procurement of consultant/contract services boundary determination of public lands and rights-of-ways, land title review and opinion, subdivision of land, site developments, infrastructure engineering/transportation design support, building permitting, land acquisition, environmental/conservation, riparian rights, determination of boundary of State Sovereign lands, aviation, GIS and so on. I/we have strong reservations on the direction the Department of Consumer Services/Bureau of Surveying and Mapping have explored in the past and once again considering regarding a major overhaul of 5J17 Standards of Practice. The subject matter is referencing the rules work group meeting minutes and potential future regulatory board action on said recommendations. These rules (MTS) were developed over time in response to deficiencies in surveys that resulted in harm to the public in the past. As the persons procuring a survey often do not know what they need, these professional standards are intended to ensure that a survey will contain at least a minimum of information and be prepared to a standard that the public can rely on. The rules workgroup current proposed additions for the boundary survey portion appear to have its merit and will contribute to the protection of the Public. Local governmental adverse effects from the proposed overhaul: In an absence of established state minimum standards such as 5J17 that local governments can reference to, unintended consequences may be developed over time. Local agencies most likely will adopt (by ordinance) their own rule or versions supporting various purposes such as land development, permitting and consultant services. Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 6 of 9

7 I/we believe a mix match of standards across jurisdictions would cause an undue burden on local governments and the public, in-turn adding cost to the public. Additionally, not to mention the potential confusion to the private sector keeping track of a host of different standards; again adding cost to the public. The 5J17 rules as they exist serve a valid and accepted purpose to protect the public. I/we beg to question what purpose does the major overall of 5J17 removing the types of surveys and the majority of minimum technical standards serve the public? Following is a listing of government surveyors that have agreed to support this letter to the Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers. Fact is there are numerous other local government surveyors whom contact was unavailable at the time of this letter and surely will have an input as well. It is strongly suggested the board engage in direct communications with all government surveyors throughout the state for input and a poll from such. Authored by: Michael OBrien PSM, CFM Martin County Surveyor/Real Property Supervisor (772) michaelo@martin.fl.us (cont.) Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 7 of 9

8 Supports: Glenn W. Mark, PLS #5304 Palm Beach County Surveyor Richard W. Bussell, PLS Palm Beach County Survey Interim County Surveyor for Escambia County, Contract Surveyor for Milton Florida David Glaze PSM 5605 Florida PLS Alabama Robert R. Heggan, Jr., P.S.M., P.L.S. City Surveyor / Engineering Tech III City of Sarasota Department of Public Works / Engineering th Street, Sarasota, FL Phone (941) ext robert.heggan@sarasotagov.com Todd E. Boyle Survey Division Manager Property Management Department 1112 Manatee Ave. W. Administration Building Suite 801, Bradenton, FL Office : Ext 3024 Todd.boyle@mymanatee.org Eric B Augusto, PSM Broward County Surveyor Broward County Highway Const. Engineering Division 1 North University Drive, Box 300B Plantation, FL Voice: EAUGUSTO@BROWARD.ORG Michael Donaldson City Surveyor, City of Ft. Lauderdale mdonaldson@fortlauderdale.gov Wayne (Larry) Fish, PSM Palm Beach County Survey wfish@pbcgov.org Dann McKee County Surveyor, Orange County, Florida Dann.mckee@ocfl.net Contract for Escambia County Mark A. Norris P.S.M. Rebol-Battle & Associates Civil Engineers & Surveyors 2301 North 9 th Avenue, Suite 300 Pensacola, Florida Ph: markn@rebol-battle.com Mike Sweeney, PSM Brevard County Surveyor Brevard County Public Works Department Survey & Mapping Division Office: mike.sweeney@brevardcounty.us Joe Stokes PSM City of Orlando Joseph.stokes@cityoforlando.net Richard Allen City of Orlando Surveyor Richard.allen@cityoforlando.net Robert P.Legg, Jr., P.S.M. Broward County Highway Construction and Engineering Division, Plat Section 1 N.University Drive, Box 300B Plantation, FL Tel RLEGG@BROWARD.ORG Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 8 of 9

9 Brian Harris, PSM Broward County Highway Construction & Engineering Division 1 N. University Drive, Box B300 Plantation, Florida, Ph Fax bharris@broward.org Matthew Pickel, P.S.M. Okaloosa County Surveyor 1759 S. Ferdon Blvd Crestview Fl Phone mpickel@co.okaloosa.fl.us Brad Terrier, PSM Broward County Assistant Director Highway Construction and Engineering Division One N. University Drive, Box B300 Plantation, Fl bterrier@broward.org Frank J. Guiliano, P.S.M. Broward County Highway Construction and Engineering Division, Right of Way Section One N. University Drive, Suite B300 fguiliano@broward.org Board of Professional Surveyors and Mappers - Rules Committee Meeting - Page 9 of 9