Cuno and Competitiveness: Where to Draw the Line

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Digital Commons @ Georgia Law Presentations and Speeches Faculty Scholarship 3-16-2006 Cuno and Competitiveness: Where to Draw the Line Walter Hellerstein University of Georgia School of Law Repository Citation Hellerstein, Walter, "Cuno and Competitiveness: Where to Draw the Line" (2006). Presentations and Speeches. 14. https://digitalcommons.law.uga.edu/fac_presp/14 This Article is brought to you for free and open access by the Faculty Scholarship at Digital Commons @ Georgia Law. It has been accepted for inclusion in Presentations and Speeches by an authorized administrator of Digital Commons @ Georgia Law. Please share how you have benefited from this access For more information, please contact tstriepe@uga.edu.

S. HRG. 109 691 CUNO AND COMPETITIVENESS: WHERE TO DRAW THE LINE HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE OF THE COMMITTEE ON FINANCE UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION MARCH 16, 2006 ( Printed for the use of the Committee on Finance U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 30 836 PDF WASHINGTON : 2006 For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512 1800; DC area (202) 512 1800 Fax: (202) 512 2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402 0001 VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00001 Fmt 5011 Sfmt 5011 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah TRENT LOTT, Mississippi OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine JON KYL, Arizona CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming RICK SANTORUM, Pennsylvania BILL FRIST, Tennessee GORDON SMITH, Oregon JIM BUNNING, Kentucky MIKE CRAPO, Idaho COMMITTEE ON FINANCE CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa, Chairman MAX BAUCUS, Montana JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia KENT CONRAD, North Dakota JAMES M. JEFFORDS (I), Vermont JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico JOHN F. KERRY, Massachusetts BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas RON WYDEN, Oregon CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York KOLAN DAVIS, Staff Director and Chief Counsel RUSSELL SULLIVAN, Democratic Staff Director MIKE CRAPO, Idaho TRENT LOTT, Mississippi GORDON SMITH, Oregon JIM BUNNING, Kentucky ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah OLYMPIA J. SNOWE, Maine BILL FRIST, Tennessee SUBCOMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming, Chairman (II) JEFF BINGAMAN, New Mexico MAX BAUCUS, Montana JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER IV, West Virginia KENT CONRAD, North Dakota RON WYDEN, Oregon CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00002 Fmt 0486 Sfmt 0486 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

C O N T E N T S OPENING STATEMENT Page Thomas, Hon. Craig, a U.S. Senator from Wyoming, chairman, Subcommittee on International Trade... 1 CONGRESSIONAL WITNESS Voinovich, Hon. George V., a U.S. Senator from Ohio... 2 PUBLIC WITNESSES Enrich, Peter D., professor of law, Northeastern University School of Law, Boston, MA... 5 Duncan, Harley, executive director, Federation of Tax Administrators, Washington, DC... 7 Hellerstein, Walter, Francis Shackelford distinguished professor of taxation law, University of Georgia School of Law, Athens, GA... 9 Fisher, Dr. Peter, professor, graduate program in urban and regional planning, University of Iowa, Iowa City, IA... 11 Renzas, James H., president and chief executive officer, Location Management Services, Mission Viejo, CA... 13 ALPHABETICAL LISTING AND APPENDIX MATERIAL Bunning, Hon. Jim: Prepared statement... 21 Duncan, Harley: Testimony... 7 Prepared statement... 22 Enrich, Peter D.: Testimony... 5 Prepared statement... 28 Fisher, Dr. Peter: Testimony... 11 Prepared statement with attachment... 37 Responses to questions from subcommittee members... 81 Frist, Hon. Bill: Prepared statement... 83 Hellerstein, Walter: Testimony... 9 Prepared statement with attachment... 84 Renzas, James H.: Testimony... 13 Prepared statement... 124 Thomas, Hon. Craig: Opening statement... 1 Prepared statement... 128 Voinovich, Hon. George V.: Testimony... 2 Prepared statement with attachment... 129 COMMUNICATION Tax Foundation... 135 (III) VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00003 Fmt 5904 Sfmt 5904 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

9 States, and we think is important to the effective functioning of the Economic Development Act. That, just briefly, says that nothing in this section shall be construed to create any inference with respect to the validity or invalidity under the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution of any tax incentive described in this section. Briefly put, what that says is, if an incentive is found to run afoul of one of the restrictions in section 3A, it is not, per se, invalid. Instead, there would need to be a separate determination by the Court, whoever is considering it, that it rose to the levels of impermissible discrimination under the Commerce Clause. We think this is important in preserving the situation as it existed prior to Cuno, and does in fact do a lot to alleviate some of the uncertainty. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator THOMAS. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. [The prepared statement of Mr. Duncan appears in the appendix.] Senator THOMAS. Mr. Hellerstein? STATEMENT OF WALTER HELLERSTEIN, FRANCIS SHACKEL- FORD DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF TAXATION LAW, UNI- VERSITY OF GEORGIA SCHOOL OF LAW, ATHENS, GA Mr. HELLERSTEIN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am honored by the invitation to testify before you today. My testimony can be summarized in two sentences. Senator THOMAS. Good for you! Mr. HELLERSTEIN. First, Congress should draw a line between acceptable economic development incentives and unacceptable State tax discrimination. Second, in doing so, Congress should act very, very carefully. Why should it draw a line? It should draw a line because the law in this area is, as the Supreme Court itself has said, a quagmire and, as I have said somewhat less charitably, a mess. While the Court has said, as Professor Enrich suggests, that discrimination is one of the basic principles, what is discrimination? The Cuno case is a poster child for this problem. The Court held that, on the one hand, an investment tax credit to attract business to the State is unconstitutional, but a property tax exemption to attract business to the State is constitutional. How can that be? Well, I must confess, I wrote a Law Review article drawing just that distinction, which the Court relied on. But Professor Enrich, in his Law Review article, thinks all this stuff is unconstitutional. Other people who have written Law Review articles say that none of it is unconstitutional. The point of the matter is, there is no agreement as to what discrimination means. The Cuno case, I think, demonstrates that. There is, as Senator Voinovich has suggested, litigation all over this country, and as Mr. Duncan has suggested, tax incentives all over the country. It is anybody s guess as to whether or not these will or will not survive constitutional scrutiny. The uncertainty created by this, which has been alluded to by Senator Voinovich, is very serious, both, from a taxpayer standpoint, in terms of what they have relied on in the past and what they may rely on in the future. VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

10 In terms of States, if States lose these cases, under Supreme Court doctrine they have to provide meaningful backward-looking relief. That could mean coughing up hundreds and millions of dollars to those who were discriminated against. In the future, budgetary considerations are quite uncertain. The answer to this is not going to come from the courts. Supreme Court Justice Frankfurter said, At best, the Court can only act negatively. It can determine whether a specific State tax is imposed in violation of the Commerce Clause. We cannot make a detailed inquiry into the incidence of diverse economic burdens in order to determine the extent to which such burdens conflict with the necessities of national economic life. The problem calls for a solution by devising a Congressional policy. In short, the problem raised by Cuno is much broader than Cuno itself. Unless Congress acts, I think we will remain in the mess that we are in. How should Congress draw the line? Here, I think the message is and in this sense I agree with much of what Professor Enrich said very, very carefully. One person s economic development incentive is another person s discriminatory tax. When New York tried to lure business to the New York Stock Exchange, that was an economic incentive to New York. That was a discriminatory tax to the Boston Stock Exchange. When Hawaii decided to develop its fledgling pineapple wine industry, that was just an economic development incentive to Hawaii. That was a discriminatory tax to those selling liquor from out of State, and the Court struck it down. The Court struck down the New York case. Again, New York wanted to induce export shipment from the State in the Westinghouse case. Westinghouse said that was a discriminatory tax, even though to others that was an incentive. So the line between these is very thin, and I think Congress must act with extraordinary care in doing this. Just one recent example: Missouri. Two weeks ago today, the Missouri legislature, by a vote of 152 to 1, did something that makes a lot of sense. They said, look, we want people to buy cars that are manufactured in Missouri, so we will just exempt them from Missouri sales and use tax. Well, that is fine. But suppose the car is manufactured in Illinois or in Michigan? It does not take a Nobel Prize-winning economist to realize that that may be an incentive that Congress would rather not bless. So my point here is, simply, you must act with extraordinary care in drawing this line, although I think it is terribly important, for the reasons I have suggested, to draw that line. In an attachment to this testimony, with which I will not burden this hearing, I have suggested a number of technical suggestions that I think address a number of the problems that Professor Enrich was referring to. I think the Voinovich bill makes an excellent start at this process, but I do think that it needs some additional fine tuning in order to make sure that Congress is not throwing out the baby with the bath water. Thank you very much. Senator THOMAS. Thank you, sir. VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

15 Yet, these countries have much lower operating costs to begin with. Looking at the economic growth these countries have achieved over the last decade, it is difficult not to surmise that their policies to encourage new jobs and investment in their countries have been effective. The United States is the greatest country in the world and has the most robust and productive economy the world has ever known. These benefits stem from the belief in the power of competition, and free markets to reward innovation and risk-taking. Competition makes us all better and more focused on achieving positive results. Federal legislation which would impede the ability of States to control their economic destiny, in the face of increasingly intense global competition, would be short-sighted and detrimental to the American worker, American investors, and American institutions. In the best tradition of States rights, this is an area where the State political process should be used to weigh the pros and cons of any individual tax credit or incentives policy. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Renzas appears in the appendix.] Senator THOMAS. Thank you. That is a very impressive panel. We thank you so much. We will ask some fairly short questions. I hope you can give us some fairly short answers. We are kind of pushed. We are going to start voting at 10:30, I believe, and maybe go on through the day. It does not sound good. Dr. Fisher, you have made the case that there is evidence suggesting State tax incentives are not effective. Assuming for a moment you are correct, how does it make them unconstitutional, and how can you tell States they are not permitted to offer them without infringing on their taxing jurisdiction? Dr. FISHER. Well, I think you started out with an economic question and ended with a legal one. Maybe I would have to defer the latter part of that to another member of the panel. But I would simply say that any legislation is designed to clarify the issues in this area. I would recommend that it be drawn in a way that is restrictive of the States and actually reduces the use of this particular kind of weapon in the economic war among the States. Senator THOMAS. So you maintain it is ineffective. Dr. FISHER. I maintain that they are largely ineffective. Not completely ineffective. Senator THOMAS. I understand. Dr. FISHER. And very expensive. Senator THOMAS. Professor Enrich, you have argued incentives are not material to the taxpayers investment decisions. I am curious whether you have return-on-investment information on investments made with the help of those incentives versus those without the benefits. Professor ENRICH. Senator, again, you are asking the legal expert the economic question. In the course of my scholarship and in the course of my work as a State official, I have had the occasion to look at a lot of evidence about the size of differences the tax incentives do make to business bottom lines. VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00019 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

16 I do not hold myself out as an economist or an expert, but the overwhelming evidence is that tax incentives offered at the State level are not terribly effective. When I was general counsel to Massachusetts Executive Office for Administration and Finance, I had the opportunity to oversee a task force that was putting together a document that was discussing how Massachusetts had effected economic growth. We found a lot of ways that it had. We ended up deleting the entire chapter we were planning to write about the efficacy of tax incentives because the evidence simply did not bear it out. Senator THOMAS. Would you not imagine that if that were true, the State tax people would not use it? Professor ENRICH. The political pressures on State political policy makers to adopt tax incentives, especially when other States are adopting them, are intense. Senator THOMAS. All right. Professor ENRICH. And I think the whole reason that the Commerce Clause steps into these areas, is to protect States from that inevitable competition. Senator THOMAS. Thank you. Mr. Hellerstein, if the Court dismisses or overturns the Sixth Circuit decision, should Congress act to allow State and local incentives? Mr. HELLERSTEIN. Yes, for the reasons I have suggested. The law will remain indeterminate. All the Court will do is decide this case, about this one particular incentive. It will leave open for debate and certainty all of the incentives all over the country. Senator THOMAS. All right. Thank you. Senator Bingaman? Senator BINGAMAN. Thank you all for your testimony. It strikes me, what we are talking about here are several different things. First, there is the legal question that is posed by the Cuno decision, and whether or not there is a legal prohibition against States and localities providing these types of tax incentives. Then there is the larger policy question about whether it is good policy. As regards the second of those questions, policy, it strikes me, there are two different competitions that we are talking about. One is the competition among States and among communities. The other, of course, is the competition that our entire country faces relative to the rest of the world. Now, I do think, myself, I have seen examples in my State where companies were solicited to move to Ireland, or to Singapore, or whatever, and there are very substantial financial incentives offered to them to do that. We have then, for example, the Albuquerque Economic Development Organization trying to figure out, how can it compete with the government of Ireland or the government of Singapore, or wherever it happens to be. Frankly, it is not a very fair competition. It strikes me that this really, as a matter of policy, ought to be done at the Federal level. I mean, if, in fact, we are going to provide some kind of response to the very substantial tax incentives VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

17 provided by other countries, we should be doing that at the Federal level. Our Department of Commerce or someone in the Federal Government ought to be empowered to counter those kinds of offers or deal with it in some way. If we do not do that, if we are not willing to do that or smart enough to do that, which has been the case so far, it strikes me as problematic to say that States and localities are also prohibited from competing to keep those jobs. I mean, I do not know how effective their competition is through tax incentives, but I would hesitate to pass a law saying you are prohibited from doing anything. Not only will we not do it at the Federal level, we will not do anything at the Federal level to keep Ireland from wooing more and more of our manufacturing to Ireland, but we will not allow States to do it either, and we will not allow communities to do it either. So, that is sort of the circumstance I find myself in. I do not know exactly what question to pose to any of you. I guess one obvious question is, if we are in fact going to restrict States and localities from doing some of these things by statute, as Senator Voinovich has recommended, should we not take on some responsibility at the Federal level to at least respond in this competition we have with foreign governments? Professor Enrich? Professor ENRICH. I think you are entirely correct, that there is an important role for the Federal Government to play in this area. It may even be an important role for the Federal Government to identify specific ways in which States can use their tax systems to further the Federal effort at competing internationally. That is not what is happening now. What is happening now is the States are predominantly competing among themselves. It is a grossly inefficient way to compete internationally, and it is having the consequence of really hurting us in international competitiveness. I know I was out in New Mexico talking to tax practitioners there last week. The problem they are seeing is, because of the tax breaks that New Mexico is having to give to compete with other States, they are losing the funding they need to support a strong educational system and strong infrastructure, which would enhance international competitiveness. Senator BINGAMAN. Do any of the others have comments on that issue? Nobody? Dr. FISHER. I would. Senator BINGAMAN. Go ahead, please. Dr. FISHER. I would agree with what Peter Enrich just said. I would point out that there are lots of ways of competing. Labor costs, for example, are about 14 times the average State and local tax cost. Efforts to enhance labor productivity are probably, therefore, much more important than to make a small change even a large change in the State and local tax bill, which is not going to be able to offset much of a difference in labor costs. It would simply be swamped by differences in labor costs. I think the question is not whether they can occasionally be effective. The question is, what is the most cost-effective use of limited resources? I would argue that investments in education, particularly VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00021 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

18 at this juncture, are a much more cost-effective use of our scarce resources than competing with one another on the taxes. Senator BINGAMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator THOMAS. Thank you, sir. Mr. Duncan, do you think the Court s decision in this case, regardless of whether they uphold the law, will provide sufficient clarity regarding what is permitted and what is not? Mr. DUNCAN. I think it is always problematic to project what the Court might do. They most likely will take the narrowest approach that they can to try to deal with it in the fashion that they want. So it is not going to clarify the field and make everything crystal clear. But they will certainly have an opportunity to speak to where a lot of legal commentators believe Cuno went which was much farther than other courts have gone in trying to differentiate between efforts to benefit in-state as opposed to penalizing out-of- State businesses. So I think they will probably be narrow and not clarify everything, but they can probably take away a fair amount of uncertainty over the sort of plain old vanilla investment tax credits as well. Senator THOMAS. Thank you. Professor Enrich, is there precedent for Congress overturning a Court ruling involving this type of Commerce Clause issue? Professor ENRICH. Senator, there is no question that Congress has the ultimate authority in areas affected by the Commerce Clause. The challenge is to use that power wisely, and I trust the Senate will struggle with that. Senator THOMAS. Wisely? All right. So there is an opportunity to do that, to come in and fill the holes that might be left by the decision. Professor ENRICH. Not just to fill the holes. Senator THOMAS. Even if overturned. Professor ENRICH. It is a grant of authority to Congress. The courts have played the role of stepping in where Congress has not acted. Congress certainly has the power, and in previous instances has exercised that power, to supersede decisions that the courts have made. Senator THOMAS. Mr. Hellerstein, do you want to comment on that? Mr. HELLERSTEIN. Well, again, clearly Congress has the power. There is historical precedent for Congress reacting to Supreme Court precedents, indeed, a precedent which allowed the States to tax. Congress turned around and said the States could not. I just want to return for a moment, without keeping you from your vote, to what Senator Bingaman was suggesting. I think it is very important to keep in mind that there are two issues here. The one that Senator Bingaman spoke about as a bigger problem, which I think is not within my area of expertise, is terribly important, but we should not let the problems with that issue, I think, stop Congress from resolving the sort of narrow or legal problem of clearing up this uncertainty. Even assuming we can keep the law as it is, at least let us make it clearer. That is my plea to you. VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

19 Senator THOMAS. Thank you. Mr. Renzas, what ramifications, if any, do State laws like the one at issue here have on the international trade arena, in your judgment? Mr. RENZAS. Well, obviously the ability of States to provide incentives currently, as they are doing right now, gives them an opportunity to compete against some of these countries that are offering very lucrative incentives for American manufacturing jobs, and other types of jobs. We have one right now, for example, a $500 million investment, high technology, that is looking at Canada and the United States. It is down to the point where there are two finalist locations, one in the United States and one in Canada. It is a German company. They stated, if this location in the United States is not able to provide enough incentives, they will go to Canada. That will be high-technology jobs in a very lucrative industry that will be moving to another country as a result of this. So, yes, it is very important. To the extent that you can give States or the U.S. Government can provide those kinds of incentives to stem the tide of those jobs elsewhere, it is a very, very important issue. Senator THOMAS. It gets to be a little sticky as to whether that is done to compete with Canada or to compete with Colorado, is it not? Mr. RENZAS. That is going to be the issue that Congress is going to have to deal with. Senator THOMAS. Mr. Duncan, or whoever, how many States offer investment tax credits similar to the one in question in the Cuno case, do you know? Mr. DUNCAN. I do not have an exact number, but I think you can guarantee yourself it is at least 35. Senator THOMAS. Is that right, around that? Are there States or localities who publicly sided with the plaintiffs against the tax incentive, and, if so, what is the division among the States, Mr. Renzas? Do you know? Mr. RENZAS. I do not know which States have sided against the tax incentives. I am not aware of that. Most States are reluctant to take that position because it is really going to hurt their economic development competitiveness right now. Senator THOMAS. Mr. Duncan, do you have a thought on that? Mr. DUNCAN. I would turn to the counsel in the case. Senator THOMAS. All right. Professor ENRICH. There was an amicus brief on behalf of the State of Ohio that was signed by 34 States, almost to all States, who did have similar issues that they were appropriately seeking to defend. Senator THOMAS. I see. All right. Thank you. Senator? Senator BINGAMAN. Let me ask, Dr. Fisher, based on your analysis of the economics, if you were to assume that tax incentives can impact on the decision to locate a plant or to maintain an operation, to some extent, to what extent does the possibility of Federal tax incentives compare to the possibility of State and local tax incentives? VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

20 My impression is, and I think one of you testified to the effect that, there is a substantially greater capability at the Federal level to provide financial incentives through the tax code than there is at the State and local levels, so you have State and local governments essentially giving away the fairly modest taxing authority that they have to get these jobs to locate there, where the Federal Government could do much more if it were so inclined. Do you have any thoughts on that? Dr. FISHER. I think, if you take the corporate income tax, I think the Federal is, on average, probably about six times the State. The top Federal rate is still 35 percent and the average State rate, I think, is around 6 percent. So, clearly, there is a great deal more leverage internationally with adoption of incentives as part of the Federal tax than State and corporate income tax. Senator BINGAMAN. All right. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Senator THOMAS. I cannot help but think, as you talk, that this is sort of a challenge to the Federal Government, to make their taxes competitive with the rest of the world if we are going to have people come to this country. Gentlemen, thank you so very much. I think this is a most interesting issue, certainly one in which both the courts and the Congress is involved. You have brought us some very important issues and information, and we thank you so much for it. Some might have some further questions for you in the next 24 hours, and I hope you will respond to them. Thank you. The hearing is adjourned. [Whereupon, at 10:29 a.m., the hearing was concluded.] VerDate 11-MAY-2000 14:52 Nov 30, 2006 Jkt 095484 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 30836.000 SFIN1 PsN: SFIN1

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