ALABAMA DEMOCRATIC PARTY

Transcription

1 1 1 ALABAMA DEMOCRATIC PARTY SPECIAL CALLED MEETING PLACE: Embassy Suites Hotel 11 Montgomery, Alabama 12 DATE: August 26, TIME: 3:15 p.m TAKEN BY: GWENDOLYN P. TIMBIE

2 2 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 3 3:15 p.m. 4 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: We are here 5 today in a special called meeting for two 6 purposes: To fill vacancies on the SDEC and to 7 look at other potential certification issues, 8 because tomorrow is the last day someone's name 9 can be changed or put on the ballot. 10 So if you will now move to the 11 microphone if you have a nomination to fill a 12 vacancy on the State Democratic Executive 13 Committee. 14 REP. ROGERS: Madam Chair, 15 before you do, if I could do a point of order at 16 some point -- whenever you see fit to do that. 17 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Okay. 18 Right now let's finish, since I've already gotten 19 into this filling of vacancies, and then I'll let 20 you state your point. 21 The filling of vacancies on the 22 SDEC -- now, according to what I was just handed 23 by the staff, we have the following vacancies:

3 3 1 House District 6, female; House District 17, 2 female; House District 35, male; House District 3 39, female; House District 43, female; House 4 District 51, female; House District 62, female; 5 House District 64, female; House District 80, 6 female; House District 89, female; House District 7 92, female; House District 94, female; House 8 District 95, female; House District 98, female; 9 House District 102, male; House District 105, 10 male. 11 The floor is now open. If you wish 12 to nominate someone for any of those vacancies, 13 please go to the microphone. 14 MR. WILLIAMS: Mr. Chairman, I'm 15 Joel Williams. I'm from Troy. I represent House 16 District The female position for House 18 District 89 is vacant. I'd like to nominate 19 Ms. Cheryl Harrison to fill that vacancy. 20 I've discussed it with her, and 21 she's willing to serve. She's a lawyer. She's 22 been a career prosecutor for 25 years, a lifelong 23 democrat. And I'd place her name in nomination

4 4 1 for the female slot on House District MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: That is a 3 nomination for House District 89, Cheryl 4 Harrison. Okay. 5 Are there further nominations? 6 (No response.) 7 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: See no one 8 moving to the microphone. See no one moving to 9 the microphone. 10 Is it the will of the body to close 11 nominations at this time? 12 THE SPEAKERS: So moved. 13 THE SPEAKER: Second. 14 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I hear a 15 motion of second to close nominations. All those 16 in favor, say aye. 17 (Aye.) 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All opposed 19 say no. 20 (No response.) 21 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 22 have it. You have closed nominations. There is 23 one nominee.

5 5 1 All in favor of Cheryl Harrison for 2 the female slot, District 89, please say aye. 3 (Aye.) 4 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 5 opposed, please say no. 6 (No response.) 7 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 8 have it. Cheryl Harrison has been elected. 9 Is she present? 10 MR. WILLIAMS: No, ma'am. She's 11 in court. 12 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: She's in 13 court today. We will welcome her to the SDEC at 14 the next meeting. 15 Are there any other SDEC 16 nominations? 17 DR. REED: Yes, Madam Chair. 18 Some of the numbers you called, we have folks in 19 those spots. That list is not -- that list is to 20 be examined, because some of those folks are some of those folks that you called, we have folks 22 in them. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I checked

6 6 1 the list that was on the computer last night, and 2 then I asked the staff to give me a list and this 3 is what they gave me today. We will check that 4 again and make sure that it is correct. 5 DR. REED: I move to carry the 6 rest of them over till we check the matter and be 7 sure. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 9 moved that we carry over any other nominations 10 until we check the list for accuracy. 11 Do I hear a second? 12 THE SPEAKER: Second. 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I hear a 14 second. 15 Any debate? 16 (No response.) 17 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All those 18 in favor of carrying this over until the next 19 meeting when we've checked the accuracy of the 20 list, please say aye. 21 (Aye.) 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 23 opposed, please say no.

7 7 1 (No response.) 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 3 have it. You have carried it over. 4 And I see Jim Spearman and Brannon 5 Walden in the back of the room. And, Jim, I need 6 you up here. And, Brannon, I need you up here in 7 just a minute. 8 Now, are there any other vacancies? 9 Any other vacancies? 10 I know that this meeting was called 11 especially for -- primarily for two judicial 12 places, one of which was in Madison County. 13 Is there a nomination for Madison 14 County? 15 MR. HOLMES: What judicial slot 16 it is? 17 THE SPEAKER: Twenty-third. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Dr. Sharrod 19 will be able to tell us which one it was. 20 THE SPEAKER: Twenty-third 21 district of judge. 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Are there 23 any nominations for Madison County or for any

8 8 1 other legislative or judicial slot? Do you -- 2 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chair, the 3 opening -- I'm trying to understand this. There's 4 an opening for a judicial place in Madison County; 5 is that correct? 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: That is 7 correct. 8 THE SPEAKER: I want to nominate 9 Ms. Annary Cheatham. She's not here, but I want 10 to nominate her. 11 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Anna THE SPEAKER: Annary, 13 A-N-N-A-R-Y. Annary Cheatham. Madison County. 14 THE SPEAKER: Second. 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Annary 16 Shield, S-H-I-E-L-D? 17 THE SPEAKER: Cheatham. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Cheatham. 19 Thank you. Annary Cheatham. Okay. 20 Do you have her permission? 21 THE SPEAKER: Yes. 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You do have 23 her permission.

9 9 1 Are there other nominations for the 2 District 23 position? 3 (No response.) 4 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: See no one 5 moving to the microphone. 6 Do you wish the nominations to be 7 closed? 8 THE SPEAKER: I move that the 9 nominations be closed. 10 THE SPEAKER: So moved. 11 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 12 moved and seconded that the nominations be closed. 13 All in favor, say aye. 14 (Aye.) 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 16 opposed, say no. 17 (No response.) 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 19 have it. You've closed the nominations. 20 All in favor of Annary Cheatham as 21 the democratic nominee to go on the ballot in that 22 position for District 23 in Madison County, please 23 say aye.

10 10 1 (Aye.) 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 3 opposed, please say no. 4 (No response.) 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 6 have it, and you have filled that vacancy. 7 Are there any other vacancies before 8 we get to the Jefferson County matter? 9 (No response.) 10 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: No one is 11 going to the microphone. So we now move to the 12 Jefferson County Circuit Judge, Place Now, if you will look at your 14 agenda. And does everyone here have an agenda? 15 (No.) 16 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: There are 17 many here on the front. 18 Representative Rogers, if you will 19 come forward. You had a point of order -- while 20 we're handing these out. 21 And then while Representative 22 Rogers, is coming to the front, I see a very, very 23 important person in the back of the room. And

11 11 1 that's the president of our public service 2 commission and our friend and our gubernatorial 3 nominee and our wonderful Lucy Baxley. Lucy. 4 Representative Rogers. 5 REP. ROGERS: Thank you, Madam 6 Chair. 7 I've been instructed by several 8 attorneys to put it on a matter of record. That's 9 what I'm going to do. It involves Senate Bill by Roger Bedford, Act Number , ratified 11 by -- Jabo Waggoner and several republicans and 12 democrats combined. 13 What it says basically is that it it is not -- because there is nothing coming 15 through that says you've got to be a sitting 16 attorney -- practicing attorney to be sitting on a 17 judgeship. It comes from the supreme court all 18 the way down to circuit judge. It was passed last 19 year by Senator Bedford, certified by -- and 20 several republicans. Then they got together and 21 they passed it. They were trying to protect some 22 judges sitting on -- who don't have Alabama 23 licenses.

12 12 1 So I'm just going to put it on the 2 record, and then we'll file suit later on on this 3 to guarantee it to be in court. So, therefore, 4 I'll put it on record like I was informed. 5 Because I guarantee what you're 6 doing here is making a drastic mistake. I think 7 you need to reconsider what you're doing, because 8 all we're going to do is drag the party down to -- 9 and I can guarantee you, if you can't carry 10 Jefferson County, you can't win anything in the 11 State of Alabama. 12 Thank you. 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you 14 very much, Representative Rogers. 15 REP. ROGERS: Let me -- the 16 citation says -- I can read it -- part of what it 17 says. 18 The citation number -- but I've had 19 the state house to check today whether or not 20 there was a constitutional amendment that allows a 21 nonpracticing attorney to be a judge. And they 22 guaranteed me -- I don't care what -- you've got. 23 They're willing to go to court over -- the

13 13 1 court -- civil attorneys in the state house -- 2 along with civil attorneys to defend the law. 3 Nobody knows about the law until 4 recently. So, therefore, I've got it now. The 5 law is Senate Bill 28, Act Number The 6 committee consisted of Jabo Waggoner, Senator 7 Mitchell, John Knight, and Tom Butler. 8 So, therefore -- and they guaranteed 9 me -- saying they're ready to go testify anywhere 10 in the state about this law. 11 So, therefore, put it on the record, 12 and then we'll let it go on there. 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you, 14 Representative Rogers. And that has been noted 15 for the record. We do have a court reporter here, 16 and it has been noted for the record. 17 REP. ROGERS: Thank you. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Now, at 19 this time, let me very quickly review with you 20 what has happened up to the point that we are 21 today, because there may be a few of you here who 22 are present today who were not present on August 23 14th.

14 14 1 Prior to our meeting on August 14th, 2 a subcommittee chaired by Greg Graves, and there 3 were four other members on that subcommittee -- 4 prior to the 14th, that subcommittee met, had a 5 hearing on position -- whatever number. It's Place 17 in Jefferson County on the circuit 7 court. That committee recommended to the full 8 committee the vacating of that judicial nominee. 9 The committee brought its recommendation to the 10 floor on the 14th. 11 At that time, we had been notified 12 that Mrs. Marshall, who was the nominee, was 13 appealing that committee's decision, and 14 Mrs. Marshall was given an opportunity for a show 15 cause hearing for her appeal. Mrs. Marshall came 16 before the committee with her attorney, and they 17 made their appeal. 18 In the process, a motion was made to 19 uphold the committee's report. And after much 20 debate, Dr. Reed made a motion that we would not 21 make a decision that day and that we would wait 22 until the 26th to have a special called meeting of 23 the SDEC to give Mrs. Marshall the opportunity to

15 15 1 get her law license in order, to make sure that 2 her law license was up to date without 3 incumbrance. 4 Now, we are in that special meeting 5 in accordance with that motion. Mr. Graves, who 6 originally brought the motion to the SDEC, is 7 here. 8 And do you wish to make a few 9 remarks? 10 MR. GRAVES: Good afternoon. 11 Again, I'm Gregory Graves. I was one of the five 12 persons selected to the five-member committee that 13 originally heard the matter regarding 14 Mrs. Marshall's ability to remain a nominee for 15 Circuit Judge, Place 17, Jefferson County. 16 What I've decided to do was to 17 simplify this matter. I've been told that I have 18 trouble with taking the lawyerese out of my 19 conversation. 20 I've devised a handout; that if we 21 go down the handout point by point, there 22 shouldn't be -- there shouldn't be an individual 23 in this room that leaves here confused.

16 16 1 I'll give you time to get the 2 handout. I'll give you time to look at it. And 3 then we'll go over it bullet by bullet. 4 REP. ROGERS: I put -- matter of 5 record. That's all. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You have 7 put your remarks into the record. And at this 8 time, we're going to give Mr. Graves the 9 opportunity to make a very brief statement on 10 behalf of the committee in case there are 11 individuals here today that did not hear that 12 statement at the last meeting. 13 Mr. Graves, would you please proceed 14 so that we can quickly dispense with this? 15 MR. GRAVES: Sure. 16 On August 13th, pursuant to the 17 bylaws of the SDEC, a five-member committee, 18 consisting of two males and three females, was 19 assembled to hear the matter regarding Kenya 20 Lavender Marshall, whether she was to remain 21 eligible to serve as the democratic nominee for 22 Circuit Court, Place 17, Jefferson County. 23 During the course of the hearing --

17 17 1 original hearing, it was discovered that 2 Mrs. Marshall had been summarily suspended by the 3 Alabama State Bar, thus precluding her from 4 practicing law in the State of Alabama. 5 Based on that suspension, the 6 five-member committee voted five to zero that she 7 was ineligible to continue to serve as the nominee 8 because she did not make the -- meet the minimum 9 requirements to serve as a judge. 10 Now, you heard testimony -- or you 11 heard statements that there is nowhere in writing 12 that says you don't have to be licensed to 13 practice in Alabama. 14 To those of you that have the 15 handouts -- and I apologize, because I didn't 16 think there was going to be this many people. So 17 there may be some of you that don't have the 18 handout but, if you could, share with somebody. 19 Turn to the very back of the front 20 page. The supreme law of the land in Alabama is 21 the state constitution. There is no law higher. 22 There is no document higher. It's tantamount to 23 the U. S. Constitution.

18 18 1 Section 146 is labeled 2 qualifications for judge. The very first sentence 3 of Section 146 states, judges of the supreme 4 court, courts of civil appeal, circuit court, and 5 district court shall be licensed to practice law 6 in this state. In this state. It furthermore 7 says, and have such other qualifications as the 8 legislature may describe. 9 Basically what we're saying is what this law is saying, if read correctly, there 11 is one requirement that you must have, and that's 12 that you be able to practice law in the State of 13 Alabama. You must have that and other such 14 requirements. 15 Prior to this constitution section, 16 the only requirement that you could have to serve 17 as a judge was that you be learned in the law. 18 That was it. The section that says, and have 19 other qualifications, allow the legislature to 20 deem it necessary that you be 18 years old, be a 21 resident of the State of Alabama, practice law having a law license, and have five years of 23 experience.

19 19 1 Well, some of you may say, where 2 does the five years of experience come from? See, 3 that's the statute they're trying to rely on and 4 say that's all you need in the State of Alabama. 5 Section , which is also 6 included, only purported to add another 7 qualification. It was not designed to overturn or 8 ratify anything. It just purported Section 146 of 9 the constitution, which says you must be able to 10 practice in this state and have other such 11 qualifications. 12 Now to prove my point. About four 13 years ago, Supreme Court Justice Harold See came 14 under fire for being elected to the supreme court 15 without ever practicing law a day in his life. So 16 the citizens of Alabama became heated. So to 17 remedy that, they came up with To further my point, I've included 19 two articles in the handout, labeled number one 20 and number two. The first is titled, House passes 21 bill to require minimum candidate for judges. 22 I've circled for you and labeled the 23 experience clause. It says -- before the

20 20 1 experience clause, it says, currently the only 2 requirements for serving as judge in Alabama is to 3 be at least 18 years old, a licensed attorney, and 4 a resident of the state. Below that statement, 5 you'll see that Demarco, a Birmingham attorney, 6 said that Alabama is among only a handful of 7 states that does not require judges to serve 8 previously as a licensed attorney for a period of 9 time. 10 Thus, only added an 11 experienced clause. It did not overturn the 12 constitution. It did not ratify the 13 constitution. It only stated that you be allowed 14 to serve as judge if you have a valid Alabama 15 license, 18 years old, live in the state, and have 16 five years of experience in Alabama or -- or 17 another state. 18 Now, I'm going to end with this: 19 How many of you -- we're here to vote. By a show 20 of hands. Let's get some practice. How many of 21 you are going to be operated on by a doctor with 22 no license? How many of you are going to have a 23 ticket written to you by a state trooper who

21 21 1 himself has his license suspended? 2 Now it's up to you to go on record 3 if you're going to say you're going to vote for a 4 candidate to remain as nominee who doesn't have a 5 license, when you've seen the proof. The proof is 6 in the pudding. 7 Thank you. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you, 9 Mr. Graves. We appreciate you making your 10 presentation. 11 Now, in fairness, based on the 12 motion which Dr. Reed made at the August 14th 13 meeting, which was to give Mrs. Marshall the 14 opportunity to go before the bar and get her 15 license in order and to make sure there are no 16 incumbrances, is Mrs. Marshall here today to 17 present us with evidence that she has a valid 18 license without incumbrance? 19 (No response.) 20 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Let me ask 21 a second time. Is Mrs. Marshall here today to 22 present us with evidence REP. ROGERS: Her husband had to

22 22 1 have surgery today. 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 3 Did she send that evidence by 4 anyone? 5 (No response.) 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 7 Now, having heard that, Mr. Graves, 8 does your committee come forward with the same 9 recommendation? 10 MR. GRAVES: Yes, we do. 11 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Do you want 12 to go to the microphone and MR. GRAVES: It is the 14 recommendation of the subcommittee that was formed 15 and put together pursuant to the state bylaws of 16 August 13th that because she no longer meets the 17 minimum required qualification to serve as 18 judge -- circuit judge, that Mrs. Marshall 19 Lavender -- I'm sorry -- Ms. Kenya Lavender 20 Marshall no longer be eligible to be the nominee 21 for Circuit Judge, Place 17 in Jefferson County. 22 That is the motion of the subcommittee. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: There is a

23 23 1 motion before you. Since it came from a 2 committee, it does not require a second. But does 3 anyone here want -- wish to second that motion? 4 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 6 moved and seconded that the committee's -- the 7 subcommittee's report be upheld by the SDEC, which 8 would remove Mrs. Marshall as the democratic 9 nominee. 10 Now, the Chair will entertain 11 debate. If you wish to debate, please go to the 12 microphone. 13 And let me establish, in case you're 14 questioning, a quorum is definitely present. It 15 takes 30 members of the SDEC to make a quorum. So 16 you have far exceeded your quota today for a 17 quorum. 18 But is there debate on the motion? 19 (No response.) 20 THE SPEAKER: Order of the day. 21 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Is there I see some hands up. So who wants to speak? 23 THE SPEAKER: Not about that.

24 24 1 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Go ahead. 2 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chairwoman, 3 may I move to end debate? 4 THE SPEAKER: Second. 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 6 It has been moved to close debate, 7 and that requires a two-thirds vote. It has been 8 moved and seconded. 9 All those in favor closing debate, 10 please say aye. 11 (Aye.) 12 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 13 opposed, please say no. 14 (No response.) 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 16 have it. You have upheld the subcommittee's 17 report, which is to vacate the nomination of 18 Ms. Kenya Marshall to close debate -- okay. The 19 motion to close debate. And that's certainly 20 two-thirds. 21 Okay. Now we're going to vote on 22 the motion. 23 Thank you, Parliamentarian. That's

25 25 1 why she's getting paid the big bucks today. 2 All those in favor of the motion 3 brought by the subcommittee to vacate that 4 nomination, please say aye. 5 (Aye.) 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 7 opposed, please say no. 8 (No.) 9 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 10 have it. You have voted to uphold the 11 subcommittee now and vacate that seat. 12 Now we move to the filling of that 13 seat based on the action which you just took. 14 If there are individuals here who 15 wish to be nominated for that seat, you must get a 16 member of the SDEC to nominate you and a second. 17 And if your nominator wishes to speak, we've 18 passed out some rules out at the front. They were 19 at the front table. So if you didn't get a copy 20 of the rules, we'll try to get you some. 21 Yes, sir? 22 THE SPEAKER: 23 Mrs. Parliamentary, where -- the rules that were

26 26 1 passed out, should that not be okayed by the body? 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yes. Thank 3 you. That's great. Ladies and gentlemen -- 4 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chair, 5 Mr. Radney has his hand raised. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yes. The 7 Honorable Tom Radney has his hand up. 8 MR. RADNEY: My name is Tom 9 Radney. I keep getting my rule turned around. It 10 has nothing to do with what we're talking about 11 here today. 12 I do not see on the agenda where it 13 said that we will fill the vacancy if 14 Mrs. Marshall is not qualified. It's not on this 15 agenda. (Unintelligible) -- not on the agenda. 16 DR. REED: That came from the 17 last meeting. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It came 19 from the last meeting, Mr. Radney. 20 MR. RADNEY: I don't care where 21 it came from. 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: And in 23 Roman Numeral VI --

27 27 1 MR. RADNEY: I don't care where 2 it came from. Now, too often I come to these 3 meetings -- I've been coming here for 40 years 4 from -- on down, and then when -- one person says, 5 well, this is the way it ought to be. Well, this 6 is not the way it ought to be as long as I'm 7 sitting here. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Actually, I 9 appreciate your saying that, Mr. Radney, because I 10 said the exact same thing today. 11 But these fit on the page. And so 12 our staff had done these agendas. 13 MR. RADNEY: That's fine. 14 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: And I felt 15 like Roman Numeral VI says the issue concerning 16 circuit court judge, Tenth Judicial Circuit, Place I felt that that was sufficiently broad to 18 incorporate the motion which we have just 19 completed, along with filling that position. But 20 I think you make a very good point. 21 MR. RADNEY: I disagree with 22 your motion, ma'am. I don't see a motion MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you.

28 28 1 Now, ladies and gentlemen, if you -- 2 Yes, sir? 3 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chair, if 4 I'm out of order, let me know that I am. 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I will. 6 THE SPEAKER: But since this is 7 not on the agenda, I make a motion that we amend 8 the agenda and put it on there. 9 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Bobby, you 10 are in order. He has made a motion that we add 11 that -- the filling of the vacancy, even though 12 that's really not necessary. But we'll do that to 13 make sure it's here. 14 THE SPEAKER: Second. 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I hear a 16 second. The motion has been made that we fill 17 this vacancy by taking nominations and electing a 18 replacement. 19 All those in favor of the motion, 20 say aye. 21 (Aye.) 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 23 opposed, say no.

29 29 1 (No response.) 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes 3 have it. 4 And we are now going to move on. 5 REP. ROGERS: Point of order. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The Chair 7 recognizes your point. 8 REP. ROGERS: You amended the 9 agenda or we just amended agenda? What happened? 10 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: We just 11 amended the agenda. 12 REP. ROGERS: (Inaudible). 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: 14 Representative Rogers, thank you. We've heard 15 you. And that was sort of a formality, you know. 16 It really wasn't, because I've already made the 17 statement that it was on here. 18 Now, ladies and gentlemen, I was 19 about to tell people who wish to run for this 20 office what they needed to do. First of all, they 21 need to get someone to nominate them who's an SDEC 22 member and someone to second that nomination. 23 According to these rules, if we

30 30 1 adopt them, then the nominator would have up to 2 two minutes to speak, and then the person that he 3 or she nominates would have up to three minutes to 4 speak. Now, you can certainly amend that and give 5 them longer speeches. 6 Now, the second part of that would 7 be, for time purposes, that we would have -- after 8 the nominations, we would have a standing vote 9 that would be counted by individuals appointed by 10 me and the candidates. 11 So if you're a candidate and you 12 want to be nominated, then you need to go on and 13 pick out someone that you want to be your official 14 counter. 15 Okay. The rules are before you. I 16 hear that some people do not have rules. Tinah 17 has a copy here. There are a few other copies. 18 If you'll share. They're being passed around. 19 Yes, ma'am. 20 THE SPEAKER: Point of personal 21 privilege, please? 22 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Go right 23 ahead.

31 31 1 MS. MITCHELL: Jeanetta 2 Mitchell, Mobile, Alabama, House District This is point of personal privilege 4 because it has come to my attention that a number 5 of people have -- who plan to be nominated here 6 today have in the past recent history been 7 contributors to republican campaigns. 8 Now, that may be all right with some 9 of you, but I don't like situational candidates, 10 you know. You are republican today, and when it's 11 convenient, you're a democrat. I have major 12 concerns about that. I'm not talking about any 13 one person just here, but it's happening too much 14 with the democratic party. And I just wanted to 15 make certain that when we make decisions today, we 16 keep that in mind. Don't give me a situational 17 democrat. Give me a true democrat. 18 Thank you. 19 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 20 Now, are there any other comments 21 concerning the proposed rules? 22 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chair? 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yes, sir.

32 32 1 THE SPEAKER: I thought we were 2 going to have a written vote that would provide 3 the kind of paper trail that we need to correlate 4 against our listing of members of the -- for the 5 State Democratic Executive Committee. To me, I 6 think that would serve to provide adequate 7 documentation so that we'll have something -- 8 something that we can count on. 9 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You may 10 certainly move to amend this, to have a written THE SPEAKER: I move to amend 12 the rule of having a standing count to having a 13 written ballot. And I've checked with the 14 executive committee members -- staff members, and 15 they're ready to accommodate. So I make that 16 motion. 17 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yes. I 18 asked them to have a ballot ready just in case. 19 Now, I need everybody to understand 20 that if you vote by a written ballot, you must 21 sign your ballot. You must print your name and 22 then sign your ballot, and that becomes a written 23 record of how you voted.

33 33 1 Now, Mr THE SPEAKER: Madam Chair, in 3 the rules, I don't see anything that indicates 4 that the candidates have to pay a qualifying fee 5 to the democratic party. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: We have 7 checked on that, and I think that in the past 8 candidates who have not previously paid a 9 qualifying fee to run for that same office have 10 been asked if they would donate that qualifying 11 fee to the party. 12 THE SPEAKER: I'd like to add 13 that to -- can I amend the rules -- to add that to 14 the rules there? 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You may are you making that motion? 17 THE SPEAKER: Yes, ma'am. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Let's take 19 care of his first, so we won't mix the two 20 issues. 21 Now, Commissioner Harrison MR. HARRISON: Yes, ma'am. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It's my

34 34 1 understanding that you want to substitute a 2 written ballot vote which is signed for a standing 3 vote. 4 MR. HARRISON: That is correct. 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: And do you 6 have a second? 7 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 9 moved and seconded that we have a written ballot 10 vote instead of a standing note. 11 Is there debate? 12 Yes, sir. 13 MR. BATES: Dennis Bates, 14 District MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 16 MR. BATES: In the interest of 17 expediency, can we substitute a roll call vote 18 instead of a written ballot? 19 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: That would 20 be an amendment to the amendment. Are you making 21 that as an amendment to the amendment? 22 MR. BATES: I am. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Do you have

35 35 1 a second? 2 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 3 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: We have an 4 amendment to the amendment, which has been 5 seconded. 6 Is there debate on the amendment to 7 the amendment? Which is called a second degree 8 amendment? 9 THE SPEAKER: Move to end 10 debate. 11 THE SPEAKER: Point of 12 procedure. 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Now, listen 14 very carefully. 15 THE SPEAKER: Point of 16 procedure. Doesn't that change the original 17 amendment to the degree that it would be another 18 motion to MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Now, let me 20 explain to you that the original motion on the 21 floor is these procedures which would be a 22 standing vote. 23 There was an amendment made by

36 36 1 Commissioner Harrison that we have a written 2 vote. There has now been an amendment to the 3 amendment that we have a roll call vote in place 4 of a written ballot vote. 5 Now, that's all the amendments we 6 can have on the floor at one time. So we are 7 going to vote in inverse order. The last 8 amendment proposed is what we will vote on first, 9 and that is whether to have a roll call vote. 10 And is there further debate on 11 that? All those in favor of He did have a second. Yes, he had a 13 second. 14 All those in favor of the motion to 15 have a roll call vote, please say aye. 16 (Aye.) 17 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 18 opposed, please say no. 19 (No.) 20 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Okay. The 21 ayes have it. You have now -- wait just a 22 second. You've now substituted a roll call vote 23 instead of a written ballot vote.

37 37 1 THE SPEAKER: Madam Chairman. 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Now -- wait 3 just a second. 4 We now come back to the main motion 5 and you have one amendment, and that is do you 6 wish to amend this proposed set of rules with a 7 roll call vote. 8 Is there debate? 9 Are you making the motion, Dr. Reed? 10 DR. REED: Yeah. 11 Madam Chair, let me be sure what I'm I'm fixin' to make a motion to table. I don't 13 know what I'm tabling. What am I MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The roll 15 call vote is what's on the floor. 16 DR. REED: The roll call vote that's the roll call vote. I want to move that we 18 table that motion. It's going to take us a long 19 time to do a roll call vote here. It's going to 20 take a long time. 21 THE SPEAKER: Second. 22 DR. REED: I move to table it. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Do you

38 38 1 second his motion? 2 THE SPEAKER: I second it. 3 MR. HOLMES: Let me say this: 4 Is there -- and I agree with him 100 percent. 5 Now, I know we need the record. But we've got a 6 court reporter here who is taking the record in 7 case you have to go to circuit court to -- one of 8 the defendants take it to the circuit court. 9 THE SPEAKER: That's exactly 10 right. 11 MR. HOLMES: So all this about 12 write this down and that, it's just a waste of 13 time. 14 Now, I second Joe's motion. 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The motion 16 is on the floor to table the amendment to have a 17 roll call vote. 18 Now, I see no one moving -- yes. 19 THE SPEAKER: How can you table 20 a motion that's already passed? 21 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: No. All 22 that -- he had a second degree amendment. His 23 amendment substituted for the written ballot. So

39 39 1 we're no longer discussing the written ballot. 2 That was a second degree amendment which 3 substituted and became the first degree 4 amendment. 5 We are now voting on whether to 6 table the first degree amendment. 7 THE SPEAKER: Inquiry of the 8 Chair. 9 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yes, sir. 10 THE SPEAKER: Would the Chair, 11 please, explain what tabling your present 12 amendment will mean? 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Tabling the 14 present amendment will mean that we will not have 15 a roll call vote. We will go back to the proposed 16 rules, which would be a standing vote. 17 All those in favor of the motion to 18 table, please say aye. 19 (Aye.) 20 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 21 opposed, please say no. 22 (No.) 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The ayes

40 40 1 have it. You have tabled that. 2 We now go back to the printed 3 procedures. 4 REP. ROGERS: Madam Chair, I 5 move the adoption of the printed rules. 6 THE SPEAKER: Second. 7 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 8 moved and several people have seconded to adopt 9 the printed rules. 10 Is there any debate? 11 THE SPEAKER: No. 12 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All those 13 in favor, please say aye. 14 (Aye.) 15 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 16 opposed, please say no. 17 (No response.) 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You've 19 passed the proposed rules. 20 Now, if you wish to be nominated, 21 you need to get your member of the SDEC to come 22 forward and nominate you. And, remember, the 23 nominator, according to these rules, has up to two

41 41 1 minutes to speak, and the candidate himself or 2 herself has up to three minutes to speak. 3 So if you wish to nominate someone, 4 come forward. 5 MR. REED: Madam Chair. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The Chair 7 recognizes you. 8 MR. REED: Madam Chair, my name 9 is Joe Reed. I'm from Montgomery. 10 Madam Chair and this distinguished 11 body, my name is Joe Reed. I'm from the brass 12 knuckles wing of the democratic party, the three 13 guys that visit you after 12:00 at night wing of 14 the democratic party. 15 It is my pleasure to place in 16 nomination the name of Elisabeth French for 17 nomination for Circuit Court, Place 17, Jefferson 18 County. 19 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 20 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Okay. It 21 has been moved and seconded. 22 Do you wish to speak? 23 MR. REED: Briefly.

42 42 1 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You have up 2 to two minutes to speak. 3 And, Brannon -- Jim, is Brannon here 4 with the time with the watch? 5 Jim, would you come forward and 6 time, please? 7 MR. REED: I'm going to make 8 this really quick. 9 I think Fanny -- said she was sick 10 and tired of being sick and tired, if I'm not 11 mistaken. And being a lawyer practicing in the 12 State of Alabama, I'm sick and tired of being sick 13 and tired. 14 For a lot of you who do not have law 15 licenses, I can tell you one of the worst places 16 you will go is a courtroom. You think you might 17 be treated fairly, but you probably, in all 18 likelihood, will not. There is a different kind 19 of justice; one that is republican and one that is 20 democratic. All right. Some people won't say it, 21 but I'm going to say it today. Okay. 22 We have democrats who act like 23 republicans. We have republicans who are

43 43 1 definitely republicans. We've got an opportunity 2 now to put a democrat -- a democrat -- a democrat 3 in office. Not one conveniently that wants to be 4 one today. Not one who is going to not be one 5 tomorrow. Not a democrat who won't put an Obama 6 sticker on the back of the suburban. Okay. Or 7 Sparks sticker on the back of the Volvo. But 8 someone who is going to be a democrat 24 hours a 9 day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. That's 10 what we need. We need a judge who is going to 11 listen to the people who we represent. We need a 12 judge who is going to understand our constituents, 13 the things that we need. 14 You want to know how two or three 15 people or five people can look at the same piece 16 of language that you just saw here today and come 17 up with a different interpretation of what those 18 words say? Believe me. When your rights are on 19 the line -- your property rights, your children, 20 your family, your relatives there -- you don't 21 want a different interpretation today. How 22 something gets in today and doesn't get in 23 tomorrow? You don't want that.

44 44 1 If we bring and we put in Elisabeth 2 French as circuit court judge in Jefferson County, 3 we will have a friend. We will have a loyal 4 friend. We will have a family member. And I'm 5 not talking about a distant cousin. 6 THE SPEAKER: Time up. 7 MR. REED: But a sister. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 9 Mrs. French, you have up to three minutes to 10 speak. 11 MRS. FRENCH: Thank you. 12 To the leaders of the state 13 democratic party and all of the members, I want to 14 thank you for this opportunity. 15 I want to tell you very briefly 16 about myself. I am the daughter of a school 17 teacher, a single mother. I am also the mother of 18 two children myself. I'm expecting a child in 19 November. 20 I am a trial lawyer. I have been in 21 the courtroom, and I have had the privilege of 22 representing clients all the way up and down I-65, 23 east and west. People -- everyday people from our

45 45 1 communities who have been injured, who are 2 underrepresented, and whose lives have been 3 devastated by some sort of catastrophic loss. 4 And so that has taught me about how 5 to be compassionate, and that is a very important 6 quality for a judge to have, along with being able 7 to listen and willing to listen. 8 I have been active in the Jefferson 9 County Democratic Party. My family has made 10 financial sacrifices time and time again to get 11 solid democrats in office. 12 I have handled cases, like I said, 13 all over the state. I have been in court with 14 Congressman Hilliard trying to keep bingo charity bingo in operation in Fairfield, trying to 16 keep jobs for people in our communities. 17 And I have also reached out to many 18 of you in this room, and you've supported me. 19 You've encouraged me. And I do appreciate that. 20 And you have told me that you want a judge who 21 really speaks out for justice. 22 I am asking you to make me Jefferson 23 County's next circuit court judge. And I pledge

46 46 1 to you that I have never given anything to a 2 republican and I have never asked a republican for 3 anything. And if you put me in that courthouse, I 4 will take our core democratic values each and 5 every day to that bench and speak out for justice 6 for you and for your families. 7 Thank you. 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Are there 9 further nominations? 10 MR. DUNN: Yes, ma'am. 11 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: The Chair 12 recognizes you. 13 MR. DUNN: Good afternoon. 14 My name is Grover Dunn. I'm 15 chairman of the Jefferson County ADC. 16 During the primary, we endorsed 17 Nikki Still for Place 17. In the runoff, we 18 endorsed her again and we campaigned for her, we 19 worked for her, although she did not win. 20 I was told by my executive committee 21 of the Jefferson County ADC to come and nominate 22 Nikki Still for Place Also, on Monday of this week, the

47 47 1 Jefferson County Democratic Party nominated Nikki 2 Still and recommended that we come and support 3 her. That's why I'm here today, to nominate Nikki 4 Still for Place THE SPEAKER: Second. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has 7 been -- the nomination has been made of Nikki 8 Still, and it has been seconded. 9 Is Nikki Still here? You have three 10 minutes -- up to three minutes to speak. 11 JUDGE STILL: I'm going to just 12 ask at this point -- I know that there are rules 13 in place. I have more than three minutes to say. 14 I've been living this for a year. And I'd like to 15 ask permission to speak for more than three 16 minutes. 17 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: She is 18 asking permission to speak for more than three 19 minutes. But our rules that we have adopted say 20 three minutes. 21 Now, is it your wish to Wait just a second. 23 Is it your wish to suspend the rules

48 48 1 to exceed this? 2 All in favor of suspending the rules 3 to exceed that limit, say aye. 4 (Aye.) 5 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 6 opposed, no. 7 (No.) 8 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You have 9 not suspended the rules. 10 You have three minutes. 11 JUDGE STILL: Good afternoon, 12 everyone. My name is Nikki Still. I'm 13 disappointed that I don't have more time to talk 14 to you. I couldn't the past week because I have 15 been in a jury trial. I was appointed as a 16 Jefferson County Circuit Judge. 17 Let me say this: I don't know Joe 18 Reed who just spoke, and he doesn't know me. So I 19 hope that he's not speaking about me when he calls 20 people running for this position a republican, 21 because I am not, and nobody who knows me will 22 tell you that I am. 23 And let me say this. Courtney and

49 49 1 Elisabeth French supported me my entire campaign, 2 through the runoff two weeks before the election 3 in my office, asking what could they do to get me 4 into office. So for them to come in here today 5 and say to you that I shouldn't have this job and 6 I'm not fair is hypocritical and opportunistic. 7 There are two people other than 8 Mrs. Marshall who ran for this seat. It was me 9 and Peter Johnson Davis. We qualified. We have 10 campaigned all over Jefferson County. I have been 11 endorsed by Jefferson County ADC, by Team 7, New 12 South Coalition, Central Alabama Labor Council, 13 Stonewall Democrats, mine workers, steelworkers, 14 Alabama Building and Construction Trades Council, 15 FOP Birmingham, Birmingham News. The lawyers of 16 the Birmingham bar voted me 75 percent for the 17 most highly qualified candidate. So for people to 18 come in and say that I'm not a democrat is 19 untrue. 20 When I went down to Governor Riley's 21 office, I said something. I stood up for my 22 values. They said, what are you going to be? I 23 said, I'm going to run as a democrat, because I am

50 50 1 a democrat. 2 And if you don't send me back to 3 this position where I have 45 percent of the vote 4 in the runoff percent -- almost 10,000 5 Jefferson County residents -- not around the 6 state, but people who know what's going on. 7 Almost 10,000 voted for me. They don't know who 8 Elisabeth French is. They don't know who Tamara 9 Johnson is. And that's because they've never had 10 the courage to put them out there -- themselves 11 out there and run. 12 And these people who screened me and 13 endorsed me, they've asked me the hard questions. 14 I don't have to go over my experience again and 15 again and again because I've been screened by the 16 judicial commission, by these organizations. And 17 I've passed with flying colors, because I am 18 experienced. I'm qualified. I'm a democrat. I'm 19 fair. And I'm true to my values. 20 And to say that this is not a race 21 issue is hypocritical and not fair, because I've 22 heard it from too many members of this committee 23 that race plays a factor in this issue, and it

51 51 1 should not. Just like a judge should never 2 consider a party's race or their religion or their 3 political affiliation or anything else, just like 4 I am charged with doing when I apply the law 5 fairly. This should be based on who worked hard, 6 who left their family again and again and again. 7 I have three young children. When I 8 started this, I had a six-month old, a 9 three-year-old, and a five-year-old. I have 10 dedicated an entire year campaigning throughout 11 Jefferson County, and that's why I have support. 12 And I believe I deserve your support today. 13 THE SPEAKER: Time. 14 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Now, I need 15 your attention. 16 MR. HOLMES: I have a point of 17 order. 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: I have a 19 point of order. 20 MR. HOLMES: I just want to 21 correct her. She did not get 10,000 votes. She 22 got 9, MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you,

52 52 1 Representative Holmes. 2 MR. HOLMES: And one other point 3 I want to make. I led the fight for Patricia 4 Todd, a white woman, to be in the house of 5 representatives from Jefferson County against a 6 black woman, because the white woman was right on 7 that particular issue. 8 This is not a race issue. This seat 9 was won by a black person because the majority of 10 people in Jefferson County chose a black person 11 over a white person. 12 In the case of Patricia Todd, she 13 got more votes than Kenya got. The people up 14 there decided they wanted a white woman over a 15 black woman. And so I supported that position. 16 And Patricia Todd wouldn't be in the legislature 17 today if it was not for me. So this is not a race 18 issue. 19 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 20 Now, we need to continue on with the 21 nominations. So are there other nominations? 22 REP. ROGERS: The question I've 23 got before I nominate, if I candidate, can I get

53 53 1 two minutes, too? 2 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Yeah, if 3 you're going to run. 4 Are you going to nominate yourself? 5 REP. ROGERS: I don't want to be 6 a judge. 7 Let me say this: I was going to 8 renominate Kenya Marshall, I'll tell you why. 9 Because I'm trying to save the party -- this will 10 save this party. I mean -- I don't care -- I 11 don't mind telling you. 12 But I'm going to now nominate Peter 13 Johnson Davis, now, I'll tell you why. I'll tell 14 you why. He ran for the seat. He ran. He 15 campaigned all over the county. 16 And I can tell you right now. I 17 think it's fair to do that. I mean, I want to 18 nominate Kenya Marshall. She should be the 19 candidate. She is the candidate. And I -- we've 20 already put everything in motion that we will go 21 to court on it. 22 Now, this motion from having to do a 23 roll call is right. You better write down

54 54 1 everything you're doing because it's going to be 2 in court tomorrow. All I can tell you right now 3 is that I'm going to nominate -- 4 Is Peter Johnson Davis here? 5 I'm going to nominate Peter Johnson 6 Davis. Because he's a candidate, and he ran. He 7 campaigned for a whole year. And he's a qualified 8 candidate. 9 And this is totally wrong. What I 10 really want you to do is have a whole new re-election. Come to the -- want to run. That 12 way it's only fair. He's the best person to win 13 because he ran for two people. 14 And I can tell you right now. 15 Jefferson County is serious about matter -- the 16 Jefferson County matter. He's from Jefferson 17 County. You can run to Montgomery all you want 18 to. But when the polls be counted that night or ballots, remember I told you so. That's all 20 I'm going to tell you. 21 Thank you. 22 I nominate Peter Johnson Davis. 23 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Okay.

55 nominated. Peter Johnson Davis has been 3 Mr. Davis, would you like to come 4 forward? 5 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 6 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Did you get 7 a second for your nomination? 8 I thought I heard one. 9 Now, Mr. Davis, would you like to 10 come forward and speak up to three minutes? 11 MR. DAVIS: Thank you, Madam 12 Chairman. 13 My name is Peter Johnson Davis. 14 Last year, about April of 2009, when 15 I applied for this position when Judge Horn 16 announced that he was retiring, I was interviewed 17 by the judicial commission of Jefferson County 18 that's made up of five members. They asked me 19 several questions. And, of course, I was not 20 picked with that initial 26 people who applied. 21 I did run for the position. I paid 22 my qualifying fee, and I campaigned hard. The 23 voters had a chance to meet me. And as Nikki

56 56 1 Still said, we were screened. And when I say 2 screened, by everyday voters. I went to -- I went 3 to so many neighborhood associations that I wore 4 out my shoes. And I got a chance to meet the 5 voters, and that's what the process is about. 6 They asked me questions. I listened to them. 7 They got a chance to see me. It was my first time 8 running for a major election. I got 20 percent of 9 the vote. 10 It is my position that if the former 11 nominee, Mrs. Marshall, had not been in the race, 12 I would have won the primary outright. But, 13 unfortunately, I didn't. 14 And I'm asking today for you all to 15 consider me to be the new nominee for this 16 position. I've been practicing law for 14 years 17 throughout the State of Alabama as a trial 18 lawyer. I also serve as a hearing officer for the 19 Personnel Board of Jefferson County. And in that 20 position, I acted as a mid-level judge where I 21 hear cases. I have to render a decision. 22 I distinct that fundamental fairness 23 dictates if a person did not qualify, campaign,

57 57 1 and work hard, they should not be afforded an 2 opportunity to come in in the tail end and seek -- 3 and receive a nomination. 4 I'm asking for your vote. 5 I can stand here today and say 6 without any remorse that there's only two people 7 in this room that is deserving of this position. 8 That's myself, because I -- as I said, I'm fully 9 qualified, and that's Nikki Still, because she 10 worked hard along with me. 11 And I think it's time for us as 12 people as a party to do the right thing. We 13 protect the integrity of the party that we do 14 what's right and not always what's popular. I'm 15 asking for your vote because I'm qualified. I 16 didn't -- I didn't solicit this in any back room 17 deals or any -- make any offers other than I'll 18 be -- I'll be fair if elected. I'm asking for 19 your vote, Peter Johnson Davis. 20 Thank you. 21 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Thank you. 22 Are there further nominations for 23 Place 17? Are there further nominations for Place

58 ? 2 (No response.) 3 THE SPEAKER: Move to closed. 4 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Are there 5 further nominations? 6 (No response.) 7 THE SPEAKER: Move the 8 nominations be closed. 9 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: Having now 10 asked three times, Mr. Green has moved that we 11 close nominations. 12 THE SPEAKERS: Second. 13 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: It has been 14 seconded. 15 That requires a two-thirds vote. 16 All those in favor, say aye. 17 (Aye.) 18 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: All 19 opposed, no. 20 (No response.) 21 MADAM CHAIR WORLEY: You have 22 passed closing of the debate. We're not closing 23 debate. We're closing nominations.