Transcript of Discussion Among Former Senator Slade Gorton and Former Representatives Jim Walsh, John McHugh and Bart Gordon

Transcription

1 Transcript of Discussion Among Former Senator Slade Gorton and Former Representatives Jim Walsh, John McHugh and Bart Gordon January 2018

2 Four former Members of Congress -- former Senator Slade Gorton (R-WA) and former Representatives Jim Walsh (R-NY), John McHugh (R-NY) and Bart Gorton (D-TN) -- are now together in the K&L Gates Policy Group after serving in Congress for a combined near 75 years. The following are excerpts from a conversation among these four former-membersturned-lobbyists about what constitutes excellence in government relations: Narrator: You all used to be Members of Congress. What percentage of the people who lobbied you were excellent lobbyists? Former Rep. John McHugh: I d say less than 10%. Former Sen. Slade Gorton: I would agree with that, 10% or less. Former Rep. Walsh: I was a subcommittee chairman on the Appropriations Committee so my situation was a little different. I think it would be a little higher than that for me. Maybe a quarter of them were excellent. Or maybe I m just not as discerning as you guys. [CHUCKLES] is vitally important. The second and almost equally important quality in my view is personality. I think a lobbyist is more effective if he or she is someone who you not only trust but also like, who has an affirmative personality. As a Member of Congress, are you happy to see them when they walk in the door? Former Rep. Walsh: I agree that honesty and truthfulness are essential. I think discretion is really important too. If a lobbyist comes into my office and is talking indiscreetly about all the other meetings he s had that day, I know he s going to go out of my office and say the same thing at the next office. So I d want someone who is discrete. Former Rep. McHugh: I agree with all that. Having been lobbied over a good number of years, if you can t trust the person who is walking in the door, likely that person won t be walking in the door anymore. And honesty is not just a matter of providing the facts as you may see fit, but it also means that you re willing to disclose those arguments against the position you re lobbying for. So I tried to deal with people, as Slade said, you can trust and you liked, but I was particularly focused on someone who I knew was going to give me Former Rep. Gordon: I would tend to agree with Jim. I think at least a quarter of them were excellent and the ones that were really good would bring somebody from back home with them. Whenever you can, bring somebody from back home. An excellent lobbyist finds a way to connect an issue to your home district. Narrator: What were the personal characteristics that you consistently found in the really excellent lobbyists? Former Sen. Gorton: Two qualities stand out. The first is character. Were you able to be absolutely certain that you were getting the truth and the whole truth from that individual? You only get fooled once and if the lobbyist is not totally truthful with you, that person s credibility is entirely gone. So the confidence that a lobbyist is telling you the truth and is trustworthy From left to right: Former Rep. John McHugh, Former Rep. Bart Gordon, Former Sen. Slade Gorton and Former Rep. Jim Walsh

3 the full picture, even when that full picture would make the challenge of presenting their issue a little bit steeper. Former Rep. Gordon: I agree with all that but let me add a few things. First, an excellent lobbyist needs to be well informed on the issues, be able to crisply and clearly convey the issue. Second, an excellent lobbyist whenever possible will relate it to my district, to my committees or to a vote that was coming up in the near future. I wanted to know what was going on before the meeting with the lobbyists actually took place so I preferred to have a memo or conversation with my staff before the meeting. So an excellent lobbyist gets some solid background information to the relevant staff person well in advance. If the issue wasn t pre-worked with staff in advance, I often was left in the meeting saying that I needed to study the issue more before making a final decision. Narrator: What s your view on lobbyists who insist on dealing with Members of Congress rather than staff? Whether you re dealing with a Member of Congress or the staff you treat people like you expect to be treated. And if you don t, word gets around fast. Former Rep. McHugh: At least in the defense world, and I suspect it s true on most if not every other congressional committee, staff is an enormous authority and an enormous influence. And I know when I was ranking member on the House Armed Services Committee prior to going over to the Pentagon, my staff were my most trusted resource and I always looked to them first and last as to what steps we should take, what policies we should try to pursue. So staff as Slade said, are absolutely invaluable and as a lobbyist I have never considered it either an insult or a lost opportunity to meet with the appropriate staff on any given issue. And to Jim s point, I used to like to deal with people that I like to deal with and I was very observant as to how a lobbyist would treat my staff. As my dad always said, you can judge a person s character by how he treats all the people, not just the big shots. Former Sen. Gorton: Well I think you probably deal with staff more than you deal with the Members. Former Rep. Gordon: And you may be better off in many cases. Former Sen. Gorton: But there s a distinction. The Member is likely to be there longer than the staff is and over the years, in many cases, you ll likely and constantly be meeting with new staff whom you have never seen before. Former Rep. Walsh: Here s something people often miss -- Members of Congress, and I assume senators, feel very protective of their staff and vice versa. You find out pretty quickly which lobbyists walk in the door that the staff likes or doesn t like and you find out why. You know it seems kind of old fashioned, but I think manners and the way the lobbyist treats staff are really important. I ve seen lobbyists who treat the Congressional staff like their staff. Bad move! From left to right: Former Sen. Slade Gorton, Former Rep. Jim Walsh, Former Rep. John McHugh and Former Rep. Bart Gordon

4 Former Rep. Gordon: Clients often want to go see the Members of Congress first, but my view is if it s an important issue I want to go see the staff first. Because Members are dealing with a variety of different issues and it s going to be hard for them, again, to fully comprehend or give you an answer, unless they ve been briefed up. You really want the staff to be well informed so they can present some kind of a briefing to the Member before you get there. The second thing to keep in mind about staff is that there are all kinds of staff. There is staff in the member s office, and then there is committee staff. By and large, committee staff might be there 10 years, 20 years, and they re often very knowledgeable. The other basic fact is that they have areas of specialty. And in many occasions they re going to know a little more about that issue than the Member of Congress because the Member is looking at 27 different issues and the staff may be looking at five. Former Sen. Slade Gorton Narrator: So even though you are all former Members, you all agree that a good lobbyist should never overlook the staff? Former Sen. Gorton: Because we are former Members, we understand the importance of staff. Staffs are usually organized by subject matter. They have fewer issues to deal with than the Member does and committees have a general set of issues to deal with. So they darn well should know more than the Members. They re not much good if they don t. So creating that relationship with staff on committees or in the individual office is vitally important, maybe more important as than a quick briefing of the member. Narrator: So now you are all lobbyists. What have you learned about government relations excellence from the other side of the fence? Former Rep. Walsh: If you are lobbying and you don t get a positive answer from a Congressional office, you tend to think it s about you in some way. If you are rejected or ignored, or whatever, by a Congressman or a Congressional office, the general tendency is to think it is all about you. Well guess what -- it s almost never about you, it s always about something on their end. It s hard to imagine the time and political pressures these Congressional offices are under. So be persistent, but patient. Patience and persistence combined with politeness, I think, is the best approach. Former Rep. McHugh: As someone who was being lobbied for so many years [in Congress, the New York state Senate and as Secretary of the Army], I never saw all the hard work that goes into the lobbying side of the equation. It s kind of like being in a rock and roll band. Everybody sees you on stage for two hours and they don t see the hours of practice, the preparation, the packing up, the driving to the next gig. Excellent lobbyists have a much more complex job than I realized. Having said that, I still think that being a member of the House or the Senate, from my experience, was a lot more complex, a lot more challenging. Former Rep. Gordon: I guess I ve already talked about how important it is for an excellent lobbyist to have a deep knowledge about the issue. But I do have one caveat to that. I was in a meeting today where the subject matter was a hair above my

5 knowledge level so I brought along someone from our office who was an expert. There s no shame in bringing somebody that knows the issue better. If the subject matter expert is from back home in the Member s district, all the better. My expertise might be framing it as to where it matters, what bill it s going to be, what vote it might be and what the process is going to be. But the bottom line is a good lobbyist has spent the time to really understand the issue. Former Rep. Jim Walsh: I think the key to excellence in government relations is fairly straightforward. Always operate with the highest character. Be personable and respectful of the staff. Always be truthful, even if it works against you on that particular day. Understand that these are very busy people. Work to understand the issues. Don t ask a Member to take an action that is not in his or her best interest. Oh yeah, and always keep your sense of humor. There will be times when that will be very helpful. [LAUGHTER] K&L Gates is a fully integrated global law firm with lawyers located across five continents. The firm represents leading multinational corporations, growth and middle-market companies, capital markets participants and entrepreneurs in every major industry group as well as public sector entities, educational institutions, philanthropic organizations and individuals. For more information about K&L Gates or its locations, practices and registrations, visit This publication is for informational purposes and does not contain or convey legal advice. The information herein should not be used or relied upon in regard to any particular facts or circumstances without first consulting a lawyer K&L Gates LLP. All Rights Reserved.