- 367 - LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL LC Paper No. CB(3) 711/04-05 MINUTES No. 32 Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 8 June 2005 at 11:00 am Members present: President The Hon Mrs Rita FAN HSU Lai-tai, GBS, JP The Hon Albert HO Chun-yan Ir Dr the Hon Raymond HO Chung-tai, S.B.St.J., JP The Hon LEE Cheuk-yan The Hon Martin LEE Chu-ming, SC, JP Dr the Hon David LI Kwok-po, GBS, JP The Hon Fred LI Wah-ming, JP Dr the Hon LUI Ming-wah, JP The Hon Margaret NG The Hon Mrs Selina CHOW LIANG Shuk-yee, GBS, JP The Hon James TO Kun-sun The Hon CHEUNG Man-kwong The Hon CHAN Yuen-han, JP The Hon Bernard CHAN, JP The Hon CHAN Kam-lam, JP The Hon LEUNG Yiu-chung The Hon SIN Chung-kai, JP
- 368 - Dr the Hon Philip WONG Yu-hong, GBS The Hon WONG Yung-kan, JP The Hon Jasper TSANG Yok-sing, GBS, JP The Hon Howard YOUNG, SBS, JP Dr the Hon YEUNG Sum The Hon LAU Chin-shek, JP The Hon LAU Kong-wah, JP The Hon Miriam LAU Kin-yee, GBS, JP The Hon Emily LAU Wai-hing, JP The Hon CHOY So-yuk The Hon Andrew CHENG Kar-foo The Hon Timothy FOK Tsun-ting, GBS, JP The Hon TAM Yiu-chung, GBS, JP The Hon Abraham SHEK Lai-him, JP The Hon LI Fung-ying, BBS, JP The Hon Tommy CHEUNG Yu-yan, JP The Hon Albert CHAN Wai-yip The Hon Frederick FUNG Kin-kee, JP The Hon Audrey EU Yuet-mee, SC, JP The Hon Vincent FANG Kang, JP The Hon WONG Kwok-hing, MH The Hon LEE Wing-tat Dr the Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long The Hon Jeffrey LAM Kin-fung, SBS, JP The Hon MA Lik, JP The Hon Andrew LEUNG Kwan-yuen, SBS, JP The Hon Alan LEONG Kah-kit, SC
- 369 - The Hon LEUNG Kwok-hung Dr the Hon KWOK Ka-ki Dr the Hon Fernando CHEUNG Chiu-hung The Hon Ronny TONG Ka-wah, SC The Hon CHIM Pui-chung The Hon Patrick LAU Sau-shing, SBS, JP The Hon Albert Jinghan CHENG The Hon TAM Heung-man Members absent: The Hon James TIEN Pei-chun, GBS, JP The Hon Mrs Sophie LEUNG LAU Yau-fun, SBS, JP The Hon LAU Wong-fat, GBS, JP The Hon LI Kwok-ying, MH The Daniel LAM Wai-keung, BBS, JP The Hon CHEUNG Hok-ming, SBS, JP The Hon WONG Ting-kwong, BBS The Hon KWONG Chi-kin Public officers attending: The Hon Henry TANG Ying-yen, GBS, JP The Financial Secretary The Hon Elsie LEUNG Oi-sie, GBM, JP The Secretary for Justice Prof the Hon Arthur LI Kwok-cheung, GBS, JP Secretary for Education and Manpower The Hon Joseph WONG Wing-ping, GBS, JP Secretary for the Civil Service Dr the Hon Sarah LIAO Sau-tung, JP
- 370 - Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works The Hon Frederick MA Si-hang, JP Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury The Hon John TSANG Chun-wah, JP Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology Dr the Hon York CHOW Yat-ngok, SBS, JP Secretary for Health, Welfare and Food Clerks in attendance: Mr Ricky FUNG Choi-cheung, JP, Secretary General Mrs Justina LAM CHENG Bo-ling, Assistant Secretary General (2) Mr Ray CHAN Yum-mou, Assistant Secretary General (3)
- 371 - Tabling of Papers The following papers were laid on the table pursuant to Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Subsidiary Legislation / Instruments No. 1. Application for New Identity Cards (Persons Born in 1974 to 1985) Order (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 2. Clubs (Safety of Premises) (Exclusion) (Amendment) Order 2005 (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 3. Declaration of Increase in Pensions Notice 2005 (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 4. Widows and Orphans Pension (Increase) Notice 2005 (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 5. Tax Reserve Certificates (Rate of Interest) (No. 4) Notice 2005 (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 6. Road Traffic (Registration and Licensing of Vehicles) (Amendment) Regulation 2005 (Commencement) Notice (gazetted on 3.6.2005) 7. Technical Memorandum for Supervision Plans 2005 (gazetted on 3.6.2005) L.N. 85/2005 L.N. 86/2005 L.N. 87/2005 L.N. 88/2005 L.N. 89/2005 L.N. 90/2005 S. S. No. 5 to Gazette No. 22/2005 Other Papers Report of the Bills Committee on Revenue (Allowances for Tax) Bill 2005 (published on 3.6.2005) Report of the Bills Committee on Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 2004 (published on 2.6.2005) Noting the absence of a quorum, the President directed the Clerk to summon Members to the meeting. A quorum was then present.
- 372 - Questions 1. Hon Albert Jinghan CHENG asked Question 1. The Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury replied. Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury replied. 2. Hon CHAN Kam-lam asked Question 2. The Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works replied. Four Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works replied. 3. In accordance with Rule 26(6) of the Rules of Procedure, Hon TAM Yiu-chung asked Question 3 on behalf of Hon CHEUNG Hok-ming, who was absent. The Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works replied. Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for the Environment, Transport and Works replied. 4. Hon Emily LAU asked Question 4. The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied. Two Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied. After declaring that he was a teaching staff member of the Hong Kong Polytechnic University and an elected member of its Council, Hon Fernando CHEUNG asked a supplementary. The Secretary for Education and Manpower replied. Another three Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Education and Manpower replied. 5. Hon Abraham SHEK asked Question 5. The Financial Secretary replied. Five Members asked supplementaries. The Financial Secretary and the Secretary for the Civil Service replied.
- 373-6. Hon Mrs Selina CHOW asked Question 6. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology replied. Seven Members asked supplementaries and the Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology replied. Written replies to Questions 7 to 20 were tabled for Members information. Bills First Reading Supplementary Appropriation (2004-2005) Bill The Bill was read the first time and ordered to be set down for Second Reading pursuant to Rule 53(3) of the Rules of Procedure. Second Reading Supplementary Appropriation (2004-2005) Bill The Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury moved the Second Reading and addressed the Council. Question on the Second Reading proposed. The President stated that in accordance with Rule 54(4) of the Rules of Procedure, the debate was adjourned and the Bill was referred to the House Committee. Revenue (Allowances for Tax) Bill 2005 Resumption of Second Reading debate The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 27 April 2005 resumed. Hon CHAN Kam-lam, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Revenue (Allowances for Tax) Bill 2005, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill. Four Members spoke on the Bill. The Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury replied.
- 374 - Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to. Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council. Committee Stage The Council went into Committee and considered the Revenue (Allowances for Tax) Bill 2005. Question that clauses 1 to 7 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. The Council then resumed. Third Reading The Secretary for Financial Services and the Treasury reported that the Revenue (Allowances for Tax) Bill 2005 had passed through the Committee without amendment. He moved that the Bill be read the third time and do pass. Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the third time and passed. Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 2004 Resumption of Second Reading debate The debate on the Second Reading which had been moved on 10 November 2004 resumed. Hon Margaret NG, Chairman of the Bills Committee on Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 2004, addressed the Council on the Report of the Bills Committee on the Bill. Question on the Second Reading put and agreed to. Bill read the second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Council. Committee Stage The Council went into Committee and considered the Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 2004.
- 375 - Question that clauses 1, 2, 4 and 5 stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. Question that clause 3 stand part of the Bill proposed. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology moved an amendment to clause 3 and addressed the Committee. Question on the amendment put and agreed to. Question that clause 3, as amended, stand part of the Bill proposed, put and agreed to. New headings before new clauses 6 and 8 and new clauses 6 to 9 read the first time. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology moved the Second Reading of the aforesaid headings and clauses and addressed the Committee. Question on the Second Reading of the aforesaid headings and clauses proposed, put and agreed to. New headings before new clauses 6 and 8 and new clauses 6 to 9 read the second time. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology moved the addition of the aforesaid headings and clauses to the Bill. Question on the addition proposed, put and agreed to. Question that the long title stand part of the Bill proposed. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology moved an amendment to the long title and addressed the Committee. Question on the amendment put and agreed to. The Council then resumed. Third Reading The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology reported that the Trade Descriptions (Amendment) Bill 2004 had passed through the Committee with amendments. that the Bill be read the third time and do pass. He moved Question on the Third Reading proposed, put and agreed to. Bill read the third time and passed.
- 376 - Members Motions Labelling Scheme on Nutrition Information for pre-packaged food Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long moved the following motion and addressed the Council: That, as the Government s proposal to legislate on the Labelling Scheme on Nutrition Information for pre-packaged food by phases fails to effectively assist the public and people with chronic diseases in properly obtaining food nutrition information, and also fails to fully consider and assess the impact on and the disruption to the industry after enactment of the legislation, this Council urges the Government to: (a) (b) expedite the legislation on a mandatory labelling scheme, and allow a grace period of three years after enactment of the legislation for full implementation of the 1+9 option, which covers energy and nine core nutrients, in one go; work out a long-term plan and timetable for bringing into the regulatory ambit another four nutrients which have a bearing on the level of healthiness, namely potassium, monounsaturated fatty acid, trans fatty acid and soluble fibre; (c) formulate concrete proposals and guidelines to provide targeted technical support and ancillary facilities to small and medium enterprises engaging in the relevant food businesses, so as to assist the industry in achieving a successful transition; (d) (e) establish an ad hoc group to draw up concrete proposals and an implementation timetable to help promote and educate the public on the importance of a nutrition information labelling scheme and the ways to comprehend the labels, as well as to co-ordinate professional bodies and voluntary organizations in the provision of relevant consultation and education services to the public; and set up a nutrition information analysis database that is applicable to Hong Kong, so as to address the difficulties encountered by the public, the industry and stakeholders in gathering, comprehending and analyzing nutrition information. While Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long was addressing the Council, the President left the chair at 1:32 pm temporarily and the President s Deputy, Hon Miriam LAU, took the chair.
- 377 - Question on Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion proposed. The President s Deputy stated that Hon Vincent FANG Kang and Hon WONG Yung-kan would move amendments to the motion. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion and the two amendments would be debated together in a joint debate. Hon Vincent FANG Kang and Hon WONG Yung-kan consecutively spoke on the motion and the amendments. Nine Members spoke on the motion and the amendments. Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long spoke on the amendments. At 3:00 pm, while Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long was speaking, the President resumed the chair. The Secretary for Health, Welfare and Food spoke on the motion and the amendments. Hon Vincent FANG Kang moved the following amendment to Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion: To delete effectively assist the public and people with chronic diseases in properly obtaining food nutrition information, and also fails to fully consider and assess after phases fails to and substitute with take into full account ; to add consumers and after the disruption to ; to delete expedite the legislation on a mandatory labelling scheme, and allow a grace period of three years after enactment of the legislation for full implementation of the 1+9 option, which covers energy and nine core nutrients, in one go after (a) and substitute with in introducing the nutrition labelling scheme, set an appropriate grace period for implementation of the 1+5 option, i.e. energy plus five core nutrients, namely protein, carbohydrate, total fat, saturated fat and sodium ; to delete work out after (b) and substitute with conduct a comprehensive review after completing the implementation of the first phase of the above nutrition labelling scheme, and study the formulation of ; to delete which have a bearing on the level of healthiness, namely potassium, monounsaturated fatty acid, trans fatty acid and soluble fibre after another four nutrients and substitute with, namely cholesterol, sugars, dietary fibre and calcium ; to delete establish an ad hoc group after (d) and substitute with consult the public and the industry extensively ; to delete to help promote and educate the public after implementation timetable and substitute with, and enhance publicity and promotional efforts as well as public education ; and to delete as well as to co-ordinate professional bodies and voluntary organizations in the
- 378 - provision of relevant consultation and education services to the public after comprehend the labels, and substitute with so as to enable consumers to make informed choices. Question on Hon Vincent FANG Kang s amendment to Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion proposed and put. Hon Vincent FANG Kang claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 47(1) of the Rules of Procedure. The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 20 were present, six were in favour of the amendment, 12 against it and two abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, one was in favour of the amendment and 22 against it. (Voting record in Appendix I.) Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was negatived. Hon Miriam LAU rose to move the following motion without notice: That in the event of further divisions in relation to the motion or amendments thereto on Labelling Scheme on Nutrition Information for pre-packaged food, the Council do proceed to each of such divisions after the division bell has been rung for one minute. Question on the motion proposed, put and agreed to. Hon WONG Yung-kan moved the following amendment to Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion: To add (b) expeditiously conduct a feasibility study on the regulation of labelling of food for infants and pre-packaged food for people with special dietary needs; after in one go; ; to delete the original (b) and substitute with (c) ; to delete the original (c) and substitute with (d) ; to delete the original (d) and substitute with (e) ; and to delete the original (e) and substitute with (f). Question on Hon WONG Yung-kan s amendment to Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion proposed and put. Hon Tommy CHEUNG claimed a division. The President then ordered the Council to divide under Rule 49(5) of the Rules of Procedure. The President announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 21 were present, 14 were in favour
- 379 - of the amendment, six against it and one abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 22 were in favour of the amendment and one against it. (Voting record in Appendix II.) Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, she declared that the amendment was agreed. Question on Dr Hon Joseph LEE Kok-long s motion as amended by Hon WONG Yung-kan put and agreed to. Actively improving the business environment for small and medium enterprises Hon Vincent FANG Kang moved the following motion and addressed the Council: That, although the Government has all along followed the policy of positive non-intervention in economic development, the laws, policies and measures implemented by the Government in recent years have however created hurdles and restrictions in the business environment which adversely affect the small and medium enterprises particularly and pose serious threats to the reviving employment market; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to immediately review all the laws and regulations as well as administrative measures that are detrimental to the business environment and, in the light of the outcomes of the relevant reviews, adopt policies and measures that are conducive to socio-economic development, with a view to achieving the objective of benefiting the people, facilitating businesses, and creating wealth together. Question on Hon Vincent FANG Kang s motion proposed. The President stated that Hon Fred LI would move an amendment to the motion and that Hon CHAN Kam-lam would also move an amendment to Hon Fred LI s amendment. In accordance with the Rules of Procedure, the motion, the amendment, and the amendment to the amendment would be debated together in a joint debate. Hon Fred LI moved the following amendment to Hon Vincent FANG Kang s motion and addressed the Council: To delete which adversely affect the after restriction in business environment and substitute with and, so far, the Government has not introduced a comprehensive fair competition law, resulting in unfair competition in the market, such as the monopolies in energy supplies and operations in the form of bundled services, adversely affecting the development of ; to delete pose after particularly and and substitute with
- 380 - posing ; to add and to consider introducing a comprehensive fair competition law after socio-economic development, ; and to add safeguarding the principle of fair competition on which Hong Kong s previous successes relied, and after with a view to. Question on Hon Fred LI s amendment to Hon Vincent FANG Kang s motion proposed. Hon CHAN Kam-lam moved the following amendment to Hon Fred LI s amendment and addressed the Council: To delete and, so far, the Government has not introduced a comprehensive fair competition law, resulting in unfair competition in the market after restrictions in the business environment and substitute with, and unfair competition even exists in some industries ; to delete introducing a comprehensive after and to consider and substitute with the feasibility of enacting legislation on ; to delete law after fair competition and substitute with on the premise of safeguarding Hong Kong s free economy system and enhancing its market competitiveness, ; and to delete safeguarding the principle of fair competition on which Hong Kong s previous successes relied, and after with a view to. Question on Hon CHAN Kam-lam s amendment to Hon Fred LI s amendment proposed. 17 Members spoke on the motion and the amendments. Hon Vincent FANG Kang spoke on the amendments. The Secretary for Commerce, Industry and Technology spoke on the motion and the amendments. Question on Hon CHAN Kam-lam s amendment to Hon Fred LI s amendment put and agreed to. Question on Hon Fred LI s amendment, as amended by Hon CHAN Kam-lam, to Hon Vincent FANG Kang s motion put and agreed to. Hon Vincent FANG Kang replied. Question on Hon Vincent FANG Kang s motion as amended by Hon Fred LI and Hon CHAN Kam-lam put and agreed to. Next Meeting The President declared that the next meeting of the Council would be held on 15 June 2005 at 11:00 am.
- 381 - The Council was adjourned at 6:18 pm. (Mrs Rita FAN HSU Lai-tai) President Council Chamber Hong Kong