Recalling the Mini-Debates of Philadelphia

Name: A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional Recalling the Mini-Debates of Philadelphia JnstrLzcfjons.. The convention that took place in Philadelphia in the spring and summer of 1787 addressed the problems of the Articles of Confederation. As part of that effort, the delegates examined a variety of issues. The Constitution that they proposed did not emerge from a single, focused discussion, but was instead the product of a series of minidebates. In this exercise, you will help bring those debates back to life. Imagine that you are a delegate to the Philadelphia convention. You and fifty-four other delegates have come to the United States' largest city, crowded with forty-five thousand people, to represent your respective states. You and your fellow delegates generally support the strengthening of the national government, the establishment of a two-house legislature, and the addition of executive and judicial branches of government. Beyond that, however, there are clear divisions. With each passing week, the disagreements seem to sharpen. The ten questions below are among the issues that are most vigorously debated. 1. How should members of the lower house of Congress be elected? 2. What should be done about the slave trade? 3. How should the proposed Constitution be considered for rcltiftcation? 4. How should the power of the executive branch be structured? 5. Which govemmental body or bodies should have the power to declare war? 6. How should the states be represented in the national legislature? 7. What should be the national government's role in issuing paper money? 8. What should be the extent of executive veto power? 9. How should the national and state governments divide power? 10. Should enslaved people be counted in determining representation in the national legislature? Your teacher will assign your group two issues to examine and each group member a position or two to defend. Your group's assignment is to re-enact the debates that took place in 1787 on the two issues. Each member of your group will be expected to defend at least one position. You should develop the strongest possible case for the position you have been given. Your arguments should reflect the values, interests, and attitudes of the delegates. To help you present your position, you will receive excerpts from James Madison's recollections of the arguments that were made by delegates to the Philadelphia convention. The excerpts are taken from the notes of James Madison. Include the excerpts in your arguments. Be prepared to share your own views on the issues with your classmates. It is important to keep in mind that these excerpts are not direct quotations from the delegates but rather are direct quotations from James Madison's notes. The names that you see listed on top signify who Madison was quoting. \/\/WW.CHOICES.EDU. WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PuBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. THE CHOICES PROGRAM

A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional Name: The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issue 1) Issue 1-How should members of the lower house of Congress be elected? Position A: The state legislatures should elect members of the lower house. Roger Sherman, Connecticut, June 7, 1787 "Mr. Sh[e]rman opposed elections by the people in districts, as not likely to produce such fit men as elections by State legislatures." Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts, May 31,1787 "Mr. Gerry. The evils we experience flow from the excess of democracy. The people do not want virtue, but are the dupes of pretended patriots. In Massts. it has been fully confirmed by experience that they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute. " Position 8: Citizens qualified to vote in elections for the state legislatures should elect members of the lower house. George Mason, Virgin.Ia, May 31,1787 "Mr. Mason argued strongly for an election of the larger branch by the people. It was to be the grand depository of the democratic principle of the Govtt... It ought to know & sympathise with every part of the community... We ought to attend to the rights of every class of the people." Position C: Citizens owning land should elect members of the lower house, James Wilson, Pennsylvania, May 31,1787 "No government could long subsist without the confidence of the people... He also thought it wrong to increase the weight of the State Legislatures by making them the electors of the national Legislature..,. On examination it would be found that the opposition of the States to federal measures has proceded much more from the officers of the States, then from the people at large." John Dickinson, Pennsylvania, August 7, 1787 "Mr. DICKINSON. had a very different idea of the tendency of vesting the right of suffrage in the freeholders of the Country. He considered them as the best guardians of liberty; And the restl.iction of the right to them as a necessary defence agst. the dangerous influence of those multitudes without property & without principle with which our Country like all others, will in time abound." Gouverneur Morris, Pennsylvania, August 7, 1787 "Give the votes to people who have no property, and they will sell them to the rich who will be able to buy them." James Madison, Virginia, August 7, 1787 "Viewing the subject in its merits alone, the freeholders of the Country would be the safest depositories of Republican liberty." THE CHOICES PROGRAM. WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. WWW.CHOICES,EDU

Name: A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issues 2 & 3) Issue 2-What should be done about the slave trade? Position A: The slave trade should be abolished. Gouverneur Morris, Pennsylvania, August 8, 1787 "It was the curse of heaven on the States where it prevailed. Compare the free regions of the Middle States, where a rich & noble cultivation marks the prosperity & happiness of the people, with the misery & poverty which overspread the barren wastes of Va. Maryd. & the other States having slaves... The admission of slaves into the Representation when fairly explained comes to this: that the inhabitant of Georgia and S. C. who goes to the Coast of Africa, and in defiance of the most sacred laws of humanity tears away his fellow creatures from their dearest connections & damns them to the most cruel bondages, shall have more votes in a Govt. instituted for protection of the rights of mankind, than the Citizen of Pa. or N. Jersey who views with a laudable horror, so nefarious a practice. He would add that Domestic slavery is the most prominent feature in the aristocratic countenance of the proposed Constitution. The vassalage of the poor has ever been the favorite offspring of Aristocracy." Position 8: The national government should not interfere with the slave trade. Oliver EIlsworth, Connecticut, August 21, 1787 "Mr. ELSEWORTH was for leaving the clause as it stands. let every State import what it pleases. The morality or wisdom of slavery are considerations belonging to the States themselves. What enriches a part enriches the whole, and the States are the best judges of their particular interest. " Charles Pinckney South Carolina, August 22, 1787 "South Carolina can never receive the plan if it prohibits the slave trade. In every proposed extension of the powers of the Congress, that State has expressly & watchfully excepted that of meddling with the importation of negroes. If the States be all left at liberty on this subject, S. Carolina may perhaps by degrees do of herself what is wished, as Virginia & Maryland have already done." John Rutledge, South Carolina, August 22, 1787 "Religion & humanity had nothing to do with this question. Interest alone is the governing principle with nations." Issue 3-How should the proposed Constitution be considered for ratification? Position A: The Constitution should be ratified by the state legislatures. Roger Sherman, Connecticut, June 5, 1787 "Mr. SHERMAN thought such a popular ratification unnecessary: the articles of Confederation providing for changes and alterations with the alssent of Gongs. and ratification of State Legislatures. " Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts, June 5, 1787 "Mr. GERRY observed that in the Eastern States the Confedn. had been sanctioned by the people themselves. He seemed afraid of referring the new system to them. The peo )le in that quarter have at this time the wildest ideas of Government in the world. " Position 8: The Constitution should be ratified by the citizens of each state. James Madison, V.Irginia, June 5, 1787 "Mr. MADISON thought this provision essential. The articles of Confedn. themselves were defective in this respect, resting in many of the States on the Legislative sanction only... For these reasons as well as others he thought it indispensable that the new Constitution should be ratified in the most unexceptionable form, and by the supreme authority of the people themselves." W\/\/W.CHOICES.EDU. WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. THE CHOICES PROGRAM

A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional Name: The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issues 4 & 5) Issue 4-How should the power of the executive branch be structured? Position A: An elected president should serve for life. Alexander Hamilton, New York, June 18, 1787 "The English model was the only good one on this subject. The Hereditary interest of the King was so interwoven with that of the Nation, and his personal emoluments so great, that he was placed above the danger of being corrupted from abroad-and at the same time was both sufficiently independent and sufficiently controuled, to answer the purpose of the institution at home. one of the weak sides of Republics was their being liable to foreign influence & corruption... Let the Executive also be for life." Position 8: Executive power should be divided among several men. Edmund Randolph, Virginia, June 1, 1787 "Mr. RANDOLPH strenuously opposed a unity in the Executive magistracy..,. He could not see why the great requisites for the Executive department, vigor, despatch & responsibility could not be found in three men, as well as in one man. The Executive ought to be independent. It ought therefore in order to support its independence to consist of more than one." Issue 5-Which governmental body should Position A: The Senate and House together should have the power to declare war. George Mason, August 17, 1787 "Mr. MASON was agst. giving the power of war to the Executive, because not safely to be trusted with it; or to the Senate, because not so constructed as to be entitled to it. He was for clogging rather than facilitating war... " Elbridge Gerry August 17, 1787 "Mr. GERRY never expected to hear in a republic a motion to empower the Executive alone to declare war." Position C: The executive should be appointed by and responsible to the national legislature. Roger Sherman, Connecticut, June 1, 1787 "Mr. SHERMAN said he considered the Executive magistracy as nothing more than an institution for carrying the will of the Legislature into effect, that the person or persons ought to be appointed by and accountable to the Legislature only, which was the depositary of the supreme will of the Society. As they were the best judges of the business which ought to be done by the Executive department, and consequently of the number necessary from time to time for doing it, he wished the number might not be fixed but that the legislature should be at liberty to appoint one or more as experience might dictate." Position D: A national leader should be elected by the people for a fixed term. James Wilson, Pennsylvania, June 2,1787 "He would say however at least that in theory he was for an election by the people. Experience, particularly in N. York & Massts., shewed that an election of the first magistrate by the people at large, was both a convenient & successful mode." have the power to declare war? Position 8: The Senate should have the power to declare war. Charles Pinckney August 17, 1787 "Mr. PINKNEY opposed the vesting this power in the Legislature. Its proceedings were too slow... The Senate would be the best depositary, being more acquainted with foreign affairs, and most capable of proper resolutions." Position C: The president should have the power to declare war. Pierce Butler, August 17, 1787 "He was for vesting the power in the President, who will have all the requisite qualities, and will not make war but when the Nation will support it." THE CHOICES PROGRAM. \/\/ATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. \/V\/\/W.CHOICES.EDU

Name: A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issue 6) Issue 6-How should the states be represented in the national legislature? Position A: Representation in both houses should be based strictly on population. James W.Ilson, Pennsylvania, June 9, 1787 " [Mr. Wilson] entered elaborately into the defence of a proportional representation, stating for his first position that as all authority was derived from the people, equal numbers of peo )le ought to have an equal no. of representatives, and different numbers of people different numbers of representatives. This principle had been improperly violated in the Confederation, owing to the urgent circumstances of the time. As to the case of A. & a, stated by Mr. Patterson, he observed that in districts as large as the States, the number of people was the best measure of their comparative wealth. Whether therefore wealth or numbers were to form the ratio it would be the same.,, James Madison, Virginia, May 30, 1787 ``Mr. MADISON observed that whatever reason might have existed for the equality of suffrage when the Union was a federal one among sovereign States, it must cease when a national Govermt. should be put into the place. In the former case, the acts of Gongs. depended so much for their efficacy on the cooperation of the States, that these had a weight both within & without Congress, nearly in proportion to their extent and importance. In the latter case, as the acts of the Genl. Govt. would take effect without the intervention of the State legislatures, a vote from a small State wd. have the same efficacy & importance as a vote from a large one, and there was the same reason for different numbers of representatives from different States, as from Counties of different extents within particular States. " Position 8: All states should have equal representation in the national legislature. Gunning Bed ford, Delaware, June 30, 1787 "Their cry is, where is the danger, and they insist that although the powers of the general government will be increased, yet it will be for the good of the whole, and although the three great states form nearly a majority of the people of America, they never will hurt or injure the lesser states. I do not, gentlemen, trust you. If you possess the power, the abuse of it could not be checked, and what then would prevent you from exercising it to our destruction. Position C: Eliminate state boundaries and create thirteen new units with equal population, each having an equal vote in the legislature. William Paterson, New Jersey June 9, 1787 "Mr. Patterson considered the I)roposition for a proportional representation as striking at the existence of the lesser States... A confederacy supposes sovereignty in the members composing it & sovereignty supposes equality. If we are to be considered as a nation, all State distinctions must be abolished, the whole must be thrown into hotchpot, and when an equal division is made, then there may be fairly an equality of representation. " David Brearly, New Jersey June 9, 1787 "The substitution of a ratio, he admitted carried fairness on the face of it; but on a deeper examination was unfair and unjust. Judging of the disparity of the States by the quota of Gongs. Virga. would have 16 votes, and Georgia but one. A like proportion to the others will make the whole number ninity. There will be 3. large states, and 10 small ones. The large States by which he meant Massts. Pena. & Virga. will carry every thing before them... What remedy then? One only, that a map of the U. S. be spread out, that all the existing boundaries be erased, and that a new partition of the whole be made into 13 equal parts." WW\/\/.CHOICES.EDU I WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. THE CHOICES PROGRAM

A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional Name: The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issues 7 & 8) Issue 7-What should be the national government's role in issuing paper money? Position A: The national government should not be able to issue paper money. Oliver EIIsworth, Connecticut, August 16, 1787 "Mr. ELSEWORTH thought this a favorable moment to shut and bar the door against paper money. The mischiefs of the various experiments which had been made, were now fresh in the public mind and had excited the disgust of all the respectable part of America... Paper money can in no case be necessary. The power may do harm, never good." James Wilson, Pennsylvania, August 16, 1787 "Mr. WILSON. It will have a most salutary influence on the credit of the U. States to remove the possibility of paper money. This expedient can never succeed whilst its mischiefs are remembered, and as long as it can be resorted to, it will be a bar to other resources." Pierce Butler, South Carolina, August 16, 1787 "Mr. BUTLER. remarked that paper was a legal tender in no Country in Europe. He was urgent for disarming the Government of such a power." Position 8: The national government should not be forbidden to issue paper money. George Mason, Virginia, August 16,1787 "MASON had doubts on the subject. Gongs. he thought would not have the power unless it were expressed. Though he had a mortal hatred to paper money, yet as he Could not foresee all emergences, he was unwilling to tie the hands of the Legislature. He observed that the late war could not have been carried on, had such a prohibition existed." John Mercer, Maryland, August 16, 1787 "Mr. MERGER was a friend to paper money, though in the present state & temper of America, he should neither propose nor approve of such a measure. He was consequently opposed to a prohibition of it altogether. It will stamp suspicion on the Government to deny it a discretion on this point." Issue 8-What should be the extent of executive veto power? Position A: The national legislature should not have the power to override an executive veto. James Wilson, Pennsylvania, June 4, 1787 "The Executive ought to have an absolute negative. Without such a self-defense the Legislature can at any moment sink it into non-existence. " Position 8: The national legislature should have the power to override an executive veto. Benjamin Franklin, Pennsylvania, June 4, 1787 "The negative of the Governor was constantly made use of to extort money. No good law whatever could be passed without a private bargain with him... He was afraid, if a negative should be given as proposed, that more power and money would be demanded, till at last eno' would be gotten to influence & bribe the Legislature into a compleat subjection to the will of the Executive." Roger Sherman, Connecticut, June 4, 1787 "Mr. SHERMAN was agst. enabling any one man to stop the will of the whole. No one man could be found so far above all the rest in wisdom. He thought we ought to avail ourselves of his wisdom in revising the laws, but not permit him to overule the decided and cool opinions of the Legislature." Gunning Bed ford, Delaware, June 4, 1787 "Mr. BEDFORD was opposed to every check on the Legislative... He thought it would be sufficient to mark out in the Constitution the boundaries to the Legislative Authority." THE CHOICES PROGRAM I WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. WWW.CHOICES.EDU

Name: A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issue 9) Issue 9-How should the national and state governments divide power? Position A: To be effective, the national government should deprive the state governments of power. George Read, Delaware, June 6, 1787 "Mr. READ. Too much attachment is betrayed to the State Governts. We must look beyond their continuance. A national Govt. must soon of necessity swallow all of them up. They will soon be reduced to the mere office of electing the National Senate. He was agst. patching up the old federal System: he hoped the idea wd. be dismissed. It would be like putting new cloth on an old garment. The confederation was founded on temporary principles. It cannot last: it cannot be amended. If we do not establish a good Govt. on new principles, we must either go to ruin, or have the work to do over again. The people at large are wrongly suspected of being averse to a Genl. Govt. The aversion lies among interested men who possess their confidence." power was indispensably necessary to render it effectual; that the States must be kept in due subordination to the nation; that if the States were left to act of themselves in any case, it wd. be impossible to defend the national prerogatives..." Position 8: The power of the national government should be limited and the remainder should belong to the states. Roger Sherman, Connecticut, June 6, 1787 "The objects of the Union, he thought were few.1. defence agst. foreign danger. 2 agst. internal disputes & a resort to force. 3. Treaties with foreign nations. 4 regulating foreign commerce, & drawing revenue from it. These & perhaps a few lesser objects alone rendered a Confederation of the States necessary. All other matters civil & criminal would be much better in the hands of the States." Gouverneur Morris, Pennsylvania, May 30, 1787 "Mr. Govr. MORRIS explained the distinction between a federal and national, supreme, Govt.; the former being a mere compact resting on the good faith of the parties; the latter having a compleat and compulsive operation. He contended that in all Communities there must be one supreme power, and one only." Charles Pinckney South Carolina, June 8, 1787 "He urged that such a universality of the John Dickinson, Delaware, June 2, 1787 "The division of the Country into distinct States formed the other principal source of stability. This division ought therefore to be maintained, and considerable powers to be left with the States." Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts, June 8, 1787 "The Natl. Legislature with Such a power may enslave the States. Such an idea as this will never be acceded to." WWW.CHOICES.EDU. WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY. THE CHOICES PROGRAM

A More Perfect Union: The Constitutional Part 1= The Constitutional Convention Name: The Mini-Debates of Philadelphia (Issue 10) Issue 10-Should enslaved people be counted in determining representation in the national legislature? Position A: Enslaved people should be counted in determining representation. Pierce Butler and Charles Pinckney South Carolina, July 11,1787 "M. BUTLER & Genl. PINKNEY insisted that blacks be included in the rule of Representation, equally with the Whites. " Pierce Butler, South Carolina, July 11, 1787 "Mr. BUTLER insisted that the labour of a slave in S. Carola. was as productive & valuable as that of a freeman in Massts., that as wealth was the great means of defence and utility to the Nation they were equally valuable to it with freemen; and that consequently an equal representation ought to be allowed for them in a Government which was instituted principally for the protection of property, and was itself to be supported by property." Position 8: Enslaved people should not be counted in determining representation. William Paterson, New Jersey July 9, 1787 "He could regard negroes slaves in no light but as property. They are no free agents, have no personal liberty, no faculty of acquiring property, but on the contrary are themselves property, & like other property entirely at the will of the Master. Has a man in Virga. a number of votes in proportion to the number of his slaves? And if Negroes are not represented in the States to which they belong, why should they be represented in the Genl. Govt. What is the true principle of Representation? It is an expedient by which an assembly of certain individls. chosen by the people is substituted in place of the inconvenient meeting of the people themselves. If such a meeting of the people was actually to take place, would the slaves vote? They would not. Why then shd. they be represented." George Mason, Virginia, July 11, 1787 "He could not however regard them as equal to freemen and could not vote for them as such. He added as worthy of remark, that the Southern States have this peculiar species of property, over & above the other species of property common to all the States." THE CHOICES PROGRAM. WATSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS, BROWN UNIVERSITY I WWW.CHOICES.EDU