Meeting Date and Location October 17, 2005 Coast Bastion Inn 11 Bastion St., Nanaimo, B.C. Attendees Name Stan Dixon Brian Wadhams Sandra Woolley Dan Smith Mark Jack Interest/Organization Chief, Sechelt Indian Band Namgis First Nation, Alert Bay Musgamagw Tsawataineuk Campbell River Indian Band and PIEPC member Ahousaht First Nation BC Hydro Representatives Name Organization Responsibility Claire Marshall BC Hydro, Aboriginal Relations Host/Presenter Coordinator Basil Stumborg BC Hydro, Stakeholder Presenter Engagement Cheryl Brooks Independent Consultant Facilitator/ Note Taker Jane Newlands BC Transmission Corporation Presenter Damien Dunne BC Transmission Corporation Technical Resource Cheryl Brooks made opening remarks and discussed the meeting purposes. There was a roundtable of introductions and participants reviewed and accepted the agenda. Claire Marshall provided an overview of the electricity sector and reported back on the previous two sessions. Discussion Highlights Sechelt just discovered that Indian and Northern Affairs Canada (INAC) was looking after their water licenses, but those domestic licenses are now reverting back to the Bands. Vincent Hart at INAC is looking after that; he is going through the province rewriting the role and ownership for those licenses back to the Bands. Very important point for BC Hydro and BCTC to consider As Independent Power Producers (IPPs) are being given water licenses all over B.C., and in most Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 1 of 8
cases those are on traditional lands, they need to ensure that First Nations are consulted properly. Given the New Relationship with British Columbia, this issue of federal and water jurisdiction and the role of First Nations could be sorted out. Even though BCUC has no specific obligation stated for dealing with First Nations issues, it gets its mandate from the provincial government and should thus have some specific responsibilities for Aboriginal consultation. Also, in future treaty settlements, if First Nations has their own power etc., will they need to negotiate rates with First Nations? Will the BCUC end up being responsible for figuring out the cost for accommodation of Aboriginal interests in energy projects? Dan Smith, PIEPC Member made the following comments: Just for information, BC Hydro s Provincial Committee on energy planning had three First Nations members on it and we had to spend a lot of time on educating the other members. We, as members, also had a lot of chances to learn from the BC Transmission Corporation and BC Hydro along with other groups interested in power planning. First Nations want a chance to revisit the BC Energy policy as the direction to move to more private power suppliers, this will have a lot of impact on First Nations. Attendees comments and questions: Sechelt is in a unique position because of its self-government agreement and we are dealing with numerous developers in our territory. We are reaching agreements that if they come to resolution on what new developments will take place these companies will become partners in some of the Bands projects such as the development of an eco-tourism resort. First Nations best know their own territories and therefore, are in the best position to advise people as to what can be done. For some First Nations we are in a real difficult situation because much of our territory has already been destroyed and now when we want to go into a different area to do economic development we get criticized for not being environmentally friendly. Dan Smith: At the PIEPC the First Nations members wanted to make the point that First Nations from other territories would be reluctant to make decisions for people not in their territories. Capacity building for First Nations is a must so they can fully understand opportunities and challenges and see these in the context of their respective traditional use studies Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 2 of 8
Where do we stand with California do they still owe us? The issue is still being resolved. An elder from Egmont wrote to me asking if the Skookumchuck (near Sechelt) has potential for producing energy - is there potential for tidal power there? Right now the only tidal power being studied is at Race Rocks near Victoria. I am not familiar with the area that you re referring to. Dan Smith, PIEPC member, noted that BC Hydro s senior management was very interested in hearing what people were saying and the technical people were very helpful in breaking down a lot of complex information to make it understandable. Basil Stumborg made a presentation on the IEP and the strategies that BC Hydro is considering. The following are comments and questions from participants: Comments on Burrard Generation Station If a number of First Nations got involved in independent power production you might look at Burrard as not being needed. But if you look at the need in the Lower Mainland and how much consumption there is we don t see a lot of other choices for producing energy in the Lower Mainland. So in that case, you might want to keep Burrard running because then the people who use it understand and live with the impacts. The big question for First Nations is if you keep Burrard going, how will it be made environmentally acceptable? It is a very tough discussion I feel that the Lower Mainland bands really need to make comments on the options for these facilities. Comments on Site C If all other First Nations in B.C. encouraged independent power production in their areas then it might offset the need for Site C and all the social and other impacts associated with it. We would have to talk with Treaty 8 tribes to see what they think of this. Dan Smith, PIEPC member said that the fact that other Provincial Committee members would not support Site C unless locals support is a good indication that people support the reconciliation process with First Nations. A major concern in Namgis territory is damming. We all say no dams in our territory and we are getting agreement from developers. We are seeking no damming agreements with developers because of wildlife, land and aquatic impacts. A key value for First Nations involved joint ventures is protection of Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 3 of 8
resources, and control and jurisdiction of the resources in our traditional territories. If Site C isn t built, then it should be clear to all private developers that First Nations interests must be considered and accommodated. First Nations must also be treated as partners in decision-making and First Nations need revenue sharing for projects to be successful. It s very important to note that First Nations will only speak for their area they will not speak for other areas. That is a challenge for an integrated system. You need to figure out how to bring people together so they can look at the issue from a provincial perspective and come to an understanding of what is best provincially. Comments on Demand Side Management We were working on getting Power Smart in Sechelt. Is the Sunshine Coast on the priority list for a major effort from Power Smart? Our building codes have Power Smart requirements and that is adding a great deal of extra costs for us. We like the idea of energy efficiency but don t know if it is affordable for us. Claire will follow-up on this. Comments on Overall Resource Mix If government in its New Relationship was really concerned, it would focus on consulting with us in our territories. Government, crown corporations and developers would need to cooperate with First Nations for any of these resource mixes. In the Sechelt territory we would need a mix of resource options to maximize options that work for our region. One of our goals, if we could do it, is to have free power for our people. In Namgis territory, we feel our run-of-river options are very good because the rivers never freeze in our territory so it could be year-round with no environmental impacts. One good example is the Hupacasath First Nation s run-of-river project in Port Alberni. There are no impacts on the water or fish. BC Hydro makes a lot of revenue right now, what about developing fiscal capacity for First Nations to get into the power producing business and share some of the revenues with communities? We still need to consider those First Nations communities who are on diesel and don t want to keep burning fossil fuels. We will talk later about BC Hydro s remote community electrification process that is aiming to get First Nations off of diesel generation. Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 4 of 8
What about coal it s cheap isn t it? Under the Kyoto protocol, the costs of offsetting emissions would raise the cost of coal projects a lot. From my experience on the round table on the environment, we learned that trying to keep costs low today can be more costly over the long run. Sometimes it is better to invest. We have to spend money to keep heaven on earth. We are seeing the impacts of Global warming in our territories where streams that used to have fish year-round are now dry part of the year. To minimize environmental impacts, we must invest financially. Comments on Self Sufficiency Where does selling power come into this? BC Hydro does a lot of trading; it doesn t build just to sell. Selling surplus power instead of giving it away is a philosophical issue. When we have extra, we could just reduce costs for B.C. users. But if we trade, my preference would be that we only trade or sell to Alberta and not to the U.S. Maybe look at redistributing overproduction to areas of B.C. that are short on power like Vancouver Island instead of sending it elsewhere. Help ourselves in this province first. We should have a little bit extra in case it is extra dry or if there aren t enough savings through Power Smart. Casinos in the United States are running 24 hours a day with our electricity that they haven t paid for. Comment on Strategies Why are people up North opposed to Site C? Because it would be built and all the flooded impacts would happen up there, but the benefits would go throughout all of B.C. BC Transmission Corporation (BCTC) Jane Newlands provided a presentation on BCTC s Capital Plan. Participants had the following questions, suggestions, and concerns: We had elk transported to our area about 25 years ago and they have really grown in population and have become a nuisance. Can we somehow guide them to the transmission area rights of way? We want to keep them safe, but we want to get them off of our golf courses. BCTC has heard that right of way (ROW) often provide corridors for the movement of wildlife but I haven t heard of any initiatives to try and get them to stay on the corridor. In general, most of the ROWs are crown land so BCTC or BC Hydro has limited rights on Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 5 of 8
them. The following website has more information on EMF http://www.niehs.nih.gov/emfrapid Does BC Transmission Corporation meet with First Nations on a regular basis? This would be a good opportunity to start getting out more regularly. We would like to have BC Hydro and BC Transmission invite a group of First Nations to come to Sechelt to have a full day workshop on electricity and transmission issues. Electricity is an important part of all First Nations future plans and our people need to know more. BC Transmission and BC Hydro should have an ongoing advisory committee that has access to senior managers in order to understand what matters to First Nations on an ongoing basis. We need further exploration of ways to create greater awareness and involvement of First Nations in energy issues. We need to find sponsors. Sechelt would offer their hall and cater an event. We need to gather a number of perspectives, the provincial picture, the regional picture and a community level picture on energy. The general band membership has a lot of questions about electricity. They need to understand the value of electricity. It is important to come to meet with our members and share the information on the pros and cons of electricity development. At first I was very skeptical of this process, but after my attendance at these three meetings, my mind is opened and I see that we could have some good opportunities in front of us and we need to get our community members more aware. When talking about transmission, some people think you are talking about transportation, so you need to create an understanding of these words. BC Hydro has a line that goes right through Sechelt and we negotiated a deal with them to trade the 21 acres of alienated area used by BC Hydro for 25 acres of land that the Band could then use for whatever it required. What is the relationship between Plutonic Power and BC Transmission Corporation? I am not familiar with the exact projects. BCTC s relationship with IPPs tends to be one of service provider. We do studies for IPPs on transmission options and/or provide interconnection to the transmission system. Alternatively, they could be selling power to BC Hydro and then BCTC would look at how to integrate the power as part of the BC Hydro application for service. Dan Smith, PIEPC member: A scoping meeting in Campbell River was held just to talk about the options that could be opened up if additional transmission was considered. For many people it really made it clear how much economic Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 6 of 8
opportunity could be stimulated by transmission facilities. At this meeting the First Nations had a separate morning meeting then joined a broader group of people in the afternoon. This worked well. Are transmission lines a human health hazard? Where are you allowed to build under transmission lines? There have been decades of studies about Electro Magnetic Fields (EMF), but not definitive conclusions. Through BC Hydro or BCTC you can get an EMF meter to get a reading if you are concerned about lines in your area. Numerous independent organizations continue to monitor the studies and provide a good source of information. In general, we refer people to these sources to get the most up to date information. At Ahousaht, even though there has been reinforcement work done on the lines, there is still not enough power to supply all of the new homes that are being built. In their new town site they are building 228 new homes. I would like to recommend that a presentation of this nature be brought to the Association of Vancouver Island Communities (AVICC) and to host a booth and hold a workshop too. Our concern is about pesticide use on rights of ways and how that can end up in the life cycle of elk and deer. I would prefer to see more hand clearing under the right of ways. How is Texada served? It is served by a distribution cable. We might also want a similar meeting with the Sunshine Coast regional district. Discussion regarding First Nations views and values should be ongoing not just periodic. When you are repairing the galvanized steel transmission towers, we would like to understand how long a period you take. We want to know so we can get people prepared for employment on projects like that. Many of our community members have taken silva culture training and really like to do that kind of work. Community members could be trained in fixing things like circuit breakers on distribution after crows hit them. Independent Power Producers (IPPs) First Nations are interested in being involved and would like to be notified of BC Hydro s Calls for Proposals. Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 7 of 8
Sechelt still deals with a lot of diesel and it is getting more complex all the time. We are interested in getting connected through various lines. Remote Communities Electrification Claire Marshall provided a brief presentation on BC Hydro s remote community electrification program. There will also be an upcoming workshop in late November to confirm who is interested in getting involved. Then in the early New Year there will be some site visits. One of the requirements will be to do community energy plans. What s Next? Participants made the following comments and suggestions: If Sechelt could host a community energy gathering, we could use it as an example and a model for future sessions. Sechelt would include the nonaboriginal communities in this meeting. Written communication is the worst form of informing First Nations people of upcoming events and work. The best way is face to face meetings and coming to see our communities in person. We must involve the membership and get them knowledgeable on energy issues. Perhaps North Island (Namgis) could also host a regional meeting in their community. Gilford Island would like to get off of diesel power. When the power goes out, it is often several days before it is restored as the line crew needs to come from so far away. We would be interested in training local members to do the service restoration. Where can I tap into finding dollars for some of our members to be trained as servicemen in Ahousaht? Claire will follow up on this. Meeting held on October 17, 2005 at the Coast Bastion Inn in Nanaimo Page 8 of 8