0 0 0 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF NEVADA THE HON. KENT J. DAWSON, JUDGE PRESIDING UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) ) Plaintiff, ) Case No. CR-S-0--KJD(LRL) ) vs. ) ) IRWIN SCHIFF, CYNTHIA NEUN, ) and LAWRENCE COHEN, ) ) Defendants. ) ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL (DAY ) Monday, October, 00 APPEARANCES: (See Page ) Court Reporter: Felicia Rene Zabin, RPR, CCR Federal Certified Realtime Reporter (0) -0
0 0 APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff: JEFFREY A. NEIMAN DAVID IGNALL Trial Attorneys U.S. Department of Justice Southern Criminal Enforcement Section Tax Division P.O. Box Washington, DC 00 (0) - For the Defendant, Cynthia Neun: MICHAEL V. CRISTALLI, ESQ. Michael V. Cristalli, Ltd. 0 Howard Hughes Parkway, Suite 0 Las Vegas, Nevada 0 (0) -0 For the Defendant, Irwin A. Schiff: IRWIN A. SCHIFF, PRO PER East Sahara Avenue Las Vegas, Nevada 0 (0) -0 TODD M. LEVENTHAL, ESQ. Flangas & Leventhal 00 South Third Street Las Vegas, NV 0 (0) -0 For the Defendant, Lawrence Cohen: Also Present: CHAD A. BOWERS, ESQ. Albert D. Massi, Ltd. 0 West Charleston Boulevard Las Vegas, Nevada 0 (0) - Adam Steiner, Special Agent, IRS Sam Holland, Special Agent, IRS Gary Modafferi, J.D.
0 0 LAS VEGAS, NEVADA; MONDAY, OCTOBER, 00; :00 P.M. --ooo-- P R O C E E D I N G S THE CLERK: All rise. THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. The Court has been informed that the jury has reached a verdict. Ms. Clerk, will you bring in the jury. THE CLERK: Yes, sir. (Pause in the proceedings.) (Jury enters the courtroom at :0 p.m.) THE COURT: Please be seated. Will counsel stipulate to the presence of the jury? MR. NEIMAN: Yes, your Honor. MR. BOWERS: Yes, your Honor. MR. CRISTALLI: Yes, your Honor. MR. SCHIFF: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you. Will the foreperson of the jury please rise? Ms. Foreperson, has the jury reached a unanimous verdict? THE FOREPERSON: Yes, we have. THE COURT: Would you please -- have you filled in the verdict form? THE FOREPERSON: Yes, sir, we have.
0 0 THE COURT: Would you please hand it to the Court Security Officer. Go ahead and be seated. (Document handed to the Court.) THE COURT: The clerk will read the verdicts. THE CLERK: Yes, sir. CR-S-0--KJD(LRL), United States of America vs. Irwin Schiff, Cynthia Neun, and Lawrence Cohen. "We, the jury in the above entitled case, upon our oaths, do say: "That we find the defendant, LAWRENCE COHEN, not guilty of the offense charged in Count One of the Indictment herein. "If your verdict on Count One is guilty," which it was not, the blank needed to be filled in. That is blanked. "That we find the defendant, LAWRENCE COHEN, guilty of the offense charged in Count Thirteen of the Indictment herein. "That we find the defendant, LAWRENCE COHEN, not guilty of the offense charged in Count Fourteen of the Indictment herein. "That we find the defendant, LAWRENCE COHEN, not guilty of the offense charged in Count Fifteen of the Indictment herein. "That we find the defendant LAWRENCE COHEN, not guilty of the offense charged in Count Sixteen of the Indictment herein. "DATED this th date of October, 00" and signed by
0 0 the foreperson of the jury. CR-S-0--KJD(LRL), United States of America vs. Irwin Schiff, Cynthia Neun, and Lawrence Cohen. "We, the jury in the above entitled case, upon our oaths, do say: the offense charged in Count One of the Indictment herein. "If your verdict on Count One is guilty, did you unanimously agree upon at least one particular overt act made in furtherance of the conspiracy?" The answer is yes. the offense charged in Count Six of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Seven of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Eight of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Nine of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Ten of the Indictment herein. the offense [charged] in Count Eleven of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twelve of the Indictment herein. "That we find..., CYNTHIA NEUN, guilty of the offense
0 0 in Count Twenty-Four of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-Five of the Indictment herein. "That we find the defendant, CYNTHIA NEUN, not guilty of the offense in Count Twenty-Six of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-Seven of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-Eight of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-Nine of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Thirty-Two of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Thirty-Three of the Indictment herein. "DATED this th day of October, 00" and signed by the foreperson of the jury. CR-S-0--KJD(LRL), United States of America vs. Irwin Schiff, Cynthia Neun, and Lawrence Cohen. "We, the jury in the above entitled case, upon our oaths, do say: the offense charged in Count One of the Indictment herein. "If your verdict on Count One is guilty, did you unanimously agree upon at least one particular overt act made in
0 0 furtherance of the conspiracy?" And the answer is yes. the offense in Count Two of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Three of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Four of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Five of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Six of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Seventeen of the Indictment herein. "If your verdict on Count Seventeen is guilty, did you unanimously agree upon at least one particular affirmative act to evade the taxes owed?" The answer is yes. the offense in Count Eighteen of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Nineteen of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-One of the Indictment herein.
0 0 the offense in Count Twenty-Two of the Indictment herein. the offense in Count Twenty-Three of the Indictment herein. "DATED this th day of October, 00" and signed by the foreperson of the jury. THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Clerk. Does either side wish to have the jury polled? MR. NEIMAN: Not on behalf of the United States. MR. CRISTALLI: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: All right. Ms. Clerk, will you please pole the jury. THE CLERK: Yes. Beginning at the top, please: Juror No., is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes.
0 0 Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number 0, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. 0: Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Number, is this your true verdict? JUROR NO. : Yes. Your Honor, the jury has been polled. THE COURT: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I wish to thank you for your service. You are now discharged. If you would return to the jury room and await further instruction I'll be with you in just a few moments. (Jury leaves the courtroom at :0 p.m.) THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated. Sentencing date, Ms. Clerk. THE CLERK: For Mr. Schiff, January 0, 00, at 0:0 a.m. MR. SCHIFF: What's the date? THE CLERK: January 0, 00, at 0:0.
0 0 For Ms. Neun, January, 00, at :00 a.m.; Mr. Cohen, January th at :0. THE COURT: Court has, uh, recommendations from Pretrial Services with respect to, uh, release of the defendants Neun and Cohen pending sentencing. The recommendations are for release with conditions. Does the Government wish to address that recommendation? MR. NEIMAN: Your Honor, with regard to Ms. Neun the Government would like to ask the Court to remand her into custody. We do have some evidence that we could put on, if necessary, regarding Ms. Neun's recently acquiring a significant sum of money. Uh, there is some concern that now that she is facing a significant jail time that there is the chance that she may not appear. THE COURT: I will set a hearing for this in the next two days. Uh, Defendant Cohen is released with conditions. The conditions for Mr. Cohen are any imposed by the Office of Pretrial Services together with the additional requirement that he not associate with any codefendant, witness, or victim, including adherence of the philosophies of Irwin Schiff, pending sentencing. MR. BOWERS: I'm sorry, your Honor. Could you please repeat that last sentence? I wasn't able to hear that, just the
0 0 0 end of the conditions there. THE COURT: Do not associate with any codefendant, victim, including adherence of the tax philosophies of Irwin Schiff, or witnesses in this case. MR. NEIMAN: Your Honor, has Mr. Cohen surrendered his passport? If not, we would ask that be an additional condition of his release. THE COURT: I don't know whether he has -- do you have a passport? DEFENDANT COHEN: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Have you surrendered it? DEFENDANT COHEN: They never asked me. I'll be more than happy to. THE COURT: All right. That will be a further order of the Court, surrender the passport. MR. BOWERS: Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: With respect to Defendant Neun, she is remanded pending a hearing. MR. CRISTALLI: Your Honor, if I may address the Court -- THE COURT: You may. MR. CRISTALLI: -- with regard to that, certainly we would ask that she remain at liberty pending the hearing. I know for certain that the money that the Government is referring to with regard to a considerable amount of money is $,000 she
0 0 inherited from her father's estate for which the majority of that has been -- huh? MR. MODAFFERI: All of it. MR. CRISTALLI: -- all of it has been claimed, uh, by -- with regard to child support arrearages. Um, she -- she -- THE COURT: Is it claimed or disbursed? MR. CRISTALLI: It's been -- I don't know yet. (Attorney-client discussion.) MR. CRISTALLI: It's been liened. She cannot get to it. She cannot get to that money. And there is nothing to suggest that she, um -- there's no evidence whatsoever to suggests that she's not going to show up for any future court appearances. Um, she doesn't, to the best my knowledge, have a passport. She hasn't done anything to suggest that she is not going to make her court appearance. At the very least, give her the next two days out so she can get her affairs out together. If at the time of her hearing the Court determines that, um, she is either a flight risk or danger to the community, then the Court can make the appropriate determination at that time. But, at the very least, right now she would have an opportunity to get her affairs together. Additionally, your Honor, I think the record, um, that was generated during the course of this trial is significant in terms of Ninth Circuit, uh, review -- uh, review, especially as
0 0 it relates to Ms. Neun and the issue of severance, uh, from Mr. Schiff. And we're gonna continue to argue that. So, um -- and I -- I was anticipating arguing for bail pending the appeal as well. We'd urge the Court to -- in light of the fact that -- of the charges in this case urge the Court to allow her, uh, some time at the very least prior to the hearing on this, uh, uh, this matter. THE COURT: Thank you. Government. MR. NEIMAN: Your Honor, the Government would obviously oppose any bail pending appeal as well. The Government -- I could proffer just briefly the evidence the Government has. We do know that she did receive $,000 from her inheritance. We also know that she gave instructions to not -- to give her this money or not to let her take control of this money until after the outcome of this case. What the reasoning is we're not sure. The burden in this under -- Title, United States Code,, is on the defense to show that she's not a flight risk. The Government does have some concern with -- THE COURT: I'm going set the hearing for tomorrow afternoon, give each side an opportunity to brief. She will be remanded in the meantime. MR. CRISTALLI: Your Honor, just so the Court is aware, the attorney handling that matter is in the court today if the
0 0 Court wanted to address it. THE COURT: I do not. I do not have time. But I will set it for tomorrow so that the -- the period is as minimum as it can be allowing both sides to adequately prepare. MR. NEIMAN: What time tomorrow, your Honor? THE COURT: In the afternoon, Ms. Clerk. THE CLERK: Your Honor, I'm in CM-ECF training tomorrow -- THE COURT: Oh. THE CLERK: -- from :0 to :00. THE COURT: Am I in that? THE CLERK: I don't know if you are or not. THE COURT: All right. THE CLERK: We can set it for :00 o'clock if you like. THE COURT: Set it for :00 o'clock. THE CLERK: :00 o'clock, yes, sir. :00. MR. CRISTALLI: :00 o'clock tomorrow? THE COURT: :00 p.m., yes. MR. CRISTALLI: Your Honor, just before we, um, depart we would renew all previous motions, including Rule motion. THE COURT: Those -- those are denied. With re- -- yes. MR. NEIMAN: Your Honor. Okay. We're -- THE COURT: -- with respect to Mr. Schiff -- MR. SCHIFF: Yeah.
0 0 THE COURT: -- the order is for remand. MR. SCHIFF: Your Honor, I have two civil matters that I'm fighting. One, I have an appeal on the summary judgment in front of the Ninth Circuit which I'm looking forward to responding to plus I'm supposed to have a hearing on the, um -- the permanent injunction, both of which civil matters have been postponed pending this trial. Now, I'm not gonna -- now, you set a bond for me. I'm gonna fight the conviction on numerous grounds. I've been convicted numerous times, and I've always appeared. I'm not fleeing anywhere at. But, in order to effectively do my appeal in this matter, uh -- what, do you think I'm gonna flee? Where? I'm gonna stay here and I'm gonna fight the, uh -- the, uh, conviction. But I have two civil matters that I would like to pursue and I can't pursue them in jail. THE COURT: Thank you. MR. SCHIFF: Pardon me? THE COURT: Thank you. Is that all you had to say? MR. SCHIFF: Well, I mean, there's no reason -- set a bond for me. I mean, I'll -- I'll try to meet the bond. I'm not goin' anyplace. By -- by going anyplace I won't be clearing my name and I won't, uh -- but I think I have a lot of issues for appeal. There's no reason to put me in jail. I'm not a -- you got my passport. I'm not goin' anyplace. I don't have any money to go anyplace. So just set up a bond. I mean, I think I
0 0 have plenty of issues for appeal. So -- I mean, I'm not a flight risk at all. And -- and -- and I wouldn't flee. I would much rather use the time to appeal the verdict and to litigate these other two civil matters. So I would ask the Government to reconsider. Also, you know, I -- I have plenty of medical problems that -- I have doctors -- oh, incidentally, my sister did pass away, uh, Sunday. The funeral is Wednesday. And I'd like to be able to go to New York and attend the funeral and come back, if that is possible. THE COURT: Government. MR. SCHIFF: So you can post [sic] the bond and I'll meet the bond. MR. NEIMAN: Your Honor, the Government would seek the detention of Mr. Schiff pending sentencing. Uh, we saw evidence at this trial regarding Mr. Schiff placing assets offshore outside the control or outside where the United States would be able to take them. We don't know what the Government -- we know what the Government's aware of; we don't know what the Government's unaware of. And I think Mr. Schiff is now staring, again, at significant jail time. And, if -- if his basis is that he has a legitimate grounds for appeal, I -- I -- I think that there needs to be clear and convincing evidence of that as well. And that has not been demonstrated either. We would seek --
0 0 MR. SCHIFF: You could check the P.I.L.L. account. There's maybe,000 in that account. I don't have any assets offshore. Maybe there's,000 in the P.I.L.L. account. You have the account number; check with P.I.L.L.. I think I have,000 in that account now. THE COURT: Please be seated, sir. The defendant stands convicted of numerous felonies which, in his words, are tantamount to a life sentence. He is a flight risk. He has considerable assets that are unaccounted for. Some of those, by his own admission, are concealed to avoid, uh, the government collecting and those are overseas. He has been unmanageable in the courtroom. He is a danger to the community. He has throughout the course of this trial fomented threats to the safety of the Court and its personnel. He has no respect to the Court's rulings or those of the Courts of Appeals or the other courts who have addressed these issues already. The Court finds that no conditions can be reasonably fashioned which would assure the defendant's appearance for sentencing or adequately protect the public. The matter of sanctions for numerous contempts of court citations are still pending. With respect to the issue -- issues for appeal, the defendant has evidenced that he does not respect the rulings of the Appellate Court. In his own words, all federal court judges are corrupt.
0 0 With respect to his medical problems, the Court is familiar with the Bureau of Prisons and -- and is aware that it can treat any of the conditions that the defendant, uh, now has. Accordingly, the request for detention is granted. The defendant will be detained pending sentencing. MR. SCHIFF: Your Honor, if I can just say, I do not have substantial assets overseas. That's a fiction. That's -- THE COURT: Mr. Schiff, I have ruled. MR. SCHIFF: But that's a fiction. THE COURT: That is only one of the many reasons that I have given for detention. We are now in recess. MR. BOWERS: Your Honor, I'm sorry. Just for the record, may I preserve any motions that I've made pursuant to Rule and otherwise -- THE COURT: You may. MR. BOWERS: -- throughout the trial? Thank you. (Proceedings adjourned at : p.m.) --ooo-- I hereby certify that pursuant to Section, Title, United States Code, the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the stenographically reported proceedings held in the above-entitled matter. DATED: FELICIA RENE ZABIN, RPR, CCR NO.