B # f c% Interview with WILLIAM J. BARDY,.JR. by William A. Syers Plitical Scientist and Deputy Directr Huse Republican Plicy Cmmittee ~ c;" n February 6, 1985
i TRANSCRIPT F AN INTERVIEW WITH WILLIAM J, BARDY, JR, 26/85 EDITED I IiAIF I UNDERSTAND THINGS CRR~CTLY~ THE WHITE Hus FFICE F PUBLIC ISN WAS A CREATIN F THE I-RD P, DMINISTRATIN, IS THAT TRUE AND IN ANY EVENT, HW DID FRD DESCRIBE THE JB T YU? A: "Actually, the cncept f a White Huse ffice f Public Liaisn was very much my wn prpsal. I was ne f the few Nixn hldvers amng the senir Frd White Huse staffers. I had previusly pitched the idea t President Nixn n tw ccasins but he was nly abut 25% behind the idea. After Nixn resigned in August f 1974, I ffered t stay n at the White Huse t help the new president in any way that I culd. I made the prpsal fr such an ffice t Jerry Frd and, almst immediately,he was 100% behind the idea. The ffice was created in September because we clearly had a mutual meeting f the minds n the gals we might achieve thr.ugh public liaisn. We were attempting t accmplish several things. What we gt was a tw way cmmunicatins stream. The basic idea behind the public liaisn cncept was t create an ffice t deal with the public that was n the same level and cmplementary t the White Huse ffices f press and cngressinal liaisn. The ffice served the fundamentally imprtant purpse f prviding a cntinual and systematic stream f cmmunicatins cncerning presidential psitins n varius issues ~, t all the players with cnstituent requests. It increased their understanding f the President's prpsals and enhanced the likelihd~ f getting their supprt fr thse psitins. The cmmunicatin als flwed the ther way. It was a systematic pprtunity fr grups t make their views knwn t ur administratin. It was a mst psitive and truly effective early warning system. We always tried t invlve cabinet secretaries and ther majr agency fficials with these grups. n every Tuesday we tried t have a weekly sessin with the human services grups in the family theatre. Every ther Wednesday we wuld have a meeting in which anywhere frm 12-24 peple, either representatives fr trade assciatins r chief executive fficers frm crpratins, wuld have the pprtunity t meet with the apprpriate administratin fficials in their substantive area f cncern. Perhaps ur biggest success was the Presidential twnhme meetings r White Huse cnferences n dmestic and ecnmic affairs. We created a radshw where we wuld g int a particular city and try and set up an all day lng meeting with 12 t 24 grups that we thught represented a true crss sectin f that cmmunity. We wuld set up an agenda and bring in the apprpriate peple frm the administratin. When I first envisined the Presidential twnhme meetings I thught that I culd cnsider them successful if we culd get President Frd t attend between 25-40% f them. He wuld cme in at the end f the day and deliver a shrt speech f ten minutes r s. In fact, what Jerry Frd did was cme in and give the speech and usually just cmpletely pen himself up fr any questins the audience had. T my memry, he attended evry presidential twnhme meeting we held except ne. Mrever, he really liked the meetings and they represented a lgical utgrwth f all the campaign traveling he had dne fr the Republican party in the Huse ver the years."
BARDY -2-2/6/85 Q: THERE SEEMS T BE SME CNFUSIN ABUT THE STAFFING STRUCTURE IN FRD'S WHITE HUSE, IT IS CLEAR THAT HE INTENDED T DIFFERENTIATE HIS WHITE HUSE FRM THE NIXN WHITE HUSE BY NT NAMING A FRMAL CHIEF F STAFF, IT'S ALS CLEAR THAT HE INTENDED T REVITALIZE THE NTIN F CABINET GVERNMENT AND SET UP SMETHING CALLED A CLLEGIAL SPKES F THE WHEEL ADVISRY SYSTEM, WHAT CAN YU TELL ME ABUT THE FRD STAFF STRUCTURE AND D YU THINK A CLLEGIAL PRESIDENCY IS PSSIBLE? A: "Well, let me say this. The Frd White Huse staff was a cllegial system because that is what Jerry Frd wanted and was cmfrtable with. At the same time, althugh Dn Rumsfeld was nt a Haldeman-type Chief f Staff, he was a lt mre than a staff crdinatr. ne f the first things that Frd did was t hld an ecnmic summit s that he culd =P get the views f the cuntry int the Whi~e Huse. The Frd style was t preempt the field by bringing in every relevent expert pssible. At 6D the ecnmic summit, Frd sat fr an entire day with all the chief ecnmic advisrs t presidents that were alive dating back t the c~ Rsevelt administratin. The man just perated that way in all his.~ meetings with bth the cabinet and staff. The main drawback t a ~I cllegial system is that yu can't perate that way acrss the bard. The exigencies f time eventually cmbine t prevent a president frm t~ spending all his time in meetings." Q: WHEN FRD WENT T CNGRESS IN 1948 HE HAD 3 STAFFERS, WHEN HE BECAM~ THE VICE-PRES~DENT HE HAD 56, THE WHITE HUSE HAD 485 STAFFERS WHEN HE LEFT FFICE, IHAT REPRESENTS A TREMENDUS GRWTH IN ADMINISTRATIVE RESPNSIBILITY, IT'S BEEN SUGGESTED THAT A HUSE CAREER SIMPLY IS NT MUCH F A PREPARATIN FR THE TREMENDUS ADMINISTRATIVE TASKS FACED BY A CHIEF EXECUTIVE, D YU AGREE WITH THAT? A: "Nt necessarily. It's the man nt the experience. I spent sme time n the Hill n the legislative staff f Mel Laird. Laird went frm being a Huse member t being Secretary f Defense with a staff f thusands. Yet in any histrical accunt f Defense Secretaries, Laird is always rated as ne f the tw r three best peple in that ffice. Frd's success is best demnstrated by virtue f the results. We shuld judge him, like any president, n the gals he set and hw they affected the cuntry. Under Frd, the inflatin rate went frm 12 t 4.8%. Under Frd, interest rates drpped frm 16 t 6% in just a little ver 2½ years. He made sme very difficult decisins frm a plitical standpint that cntibuted t thse numbers. ne was his edict banning new prgrams because f the effect they wuld have n expenditures. Anther was his psitive use f the vet t achieve the intended result. The vetes were psitive in the sense that the vast majrity f bills that he veted were later enacted in a revised frm. Thse revisins and the mnetary savings they created were directly attributable t Frd's purpseful decisin t use the vet fr the psitive purpse f cutting spending and achieving ecnmic results. His use f the vet was a result f his Huse experience. His strategy was t use the vet as a psitive tl fr the achievement f legislative results. He always tld me that yu had t learn hw t disagree withut being disagreeable. He felt that yu culd find a way t accmplish yur purpse withut undermining the system." =-
BARDY 2/6/85-3- Q: WE ARE TLD THAT A PRESIDENT'S STAFF. freflects HIS PERSNAL PREFERENCES AND DECISIN-MAKiNG STYLE, WHAT CAN YU TELL ME F THE CHARACTERISTIC WAY IN WHICH frd MADE IMPRTANT SUBSTANTIVE PLICY DECISINS/ A: "Typically, Frd made his decisins in a truly cllegial envirnment. He used bth the frmal institutinal advisrs and an infrmal braintrust f frmer clleagues,like Mel Laird, whm he wuld call n peridically~ as he felt the need. He wuld ften times frm a preliminary judgement n hw t prceed. He wuld then participate in an infrmal exchange f views in a cabinet meeting. Near the end f the meeting he wuld talk his way thrugh what his reasns were fr making that decisin. In ding s he made it clear t thse participating in the meeting that he grasped the issue and that there was a clearly identifiable lgic t his final reasning. Frd, like Rnald Reagan, had the benefi~ f being secure within his wn persn. He culd hire smarter peple an~ nt be intimidated by them at all. We learned that he was nt lcked int a mindset and that he culd be cmfrtable when he changed ideas r appraches. Gerald Frd had a tremendus ability t adapt his advisry system t seek ut gd advice and t fllw it." 0: FRD'S" CAREER IN THE HusE PREPARED HIM T PLAY THE ACCMDATR RLE, HE WAS BY TRAINING AND BY DISPSITIN A MAN WH SUGHT THE MIDDLE GRUND, DID YU SEE HIM AS AN ACCMDATR IN HIS WHITE HUSE DUTIES R DES SME THER RLE MRE ADEQUATELY FIT PRESIDENT FRD? A: "I dn't like the cnntatin f the wrd accmdatr. I wuld say that Frd was mre a mediatr and synthesizer. His apprach t plitics was quite definitely a result f his persnality, party, and 25 year Huse career. He was ne wh had learned Mr. Sam's mandate f having t g alng in rder t get alng. The genius f the American plitical system is that it frces cmprmise that usually flws in a psitive directin. The peple wh rise t psitins f sustained leadership in the American plitical system, like Frd, are thse wh find ways t deal with intractable issues in such a'way as t accmdate the desires f thers in an incrementally psitive manner that des nt challenge l, the system. A gd leader learns t use the system in a psitive way. ~.~ " Q: Yu WRITE A LT ABUT THE CNCEPTS F LEGITIMACY, AUTHRITY, AND FUNCTIN, THERE'S N QUESTIN THAT FRD RESTRED A GREAT DEAL F LEGITIMACY T THE VAL FFICE BY HIS HANDLING F THE JB, AT THE SAME TIME, HE WAS. NT ELECTED IN 1976 AND PART F THE REASN FR THAT WAS THE PERCEPTIN THAT HE LACKED STRNGLY SUBSTANTIVE ACCMPLISHMENTS, WHAT IS YUR VIEW F THE ACCMPLISHMENTS F THE ~RD ADMINISTRATIN/ A: "I think that he restred the val ffice within all three f thse cncepts. Everyne agrees that he restred its legitimacy after the Watergate crisis, but his vet strategy als enhanced the authrity f the ffice. As far as functin is cncerned, we're back t judging utcmes. Frd left the ffice in a perid f freign plicy tranquility
~ BARDY -4-216185..." and ecnmic upturn. Anther way t lk at this is t enter the what if categry. Undubtedly, Frd will suffer histrically frm his image as a transitin president. We dn't hnestly knw what wuld have happened if Frd had been elected t a fur year term in 1976. What he did in the transitin perid was t lay a very imprtant ecnmic fundatin. If he had been reelected the directins he intended t pursue were clear. He laid fundatins and that is all they were. Instead f Frd we gt the Carter administratin and a perid f plicy reversals in many areas. Where we are nw in 1984, we wuld have been in 1980 if Frd had been elected. The Frd fundatlns--fighting inflatin, restring defense, and reducing taxes--gave Rnald Reagan the spectacular pprtunities that he has used s well. ~.~