Proceedings. Countering Terrorism Challenges in South Asia. 03 November Organised by

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1 Proceedings Countering Terrorism Challenges in South Asia 03 November 2015 Organised by Bangladesh Institute of International and Strategic Studies (BIISS) 1/46, Old Elephant Road, Eskaton, Dhaka 1000 Bangladesh Institute of International and Strategic Studies (BIISS) held a lecture session entitled Counter Terrorism Challenges in South Asia on 03 November 2015 at the BIISS auditorium. Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain, PVSM, UYSM, AVSM, SM, VSM & Bar (Retd) of Indian Army was the keynote speaker of the session. Major General A K M Abdur Rahman, ndc, psc, Director General, BIISS delivered the address of welcome. Ambassador Munshi Faiz Ahmad, Chairman, Board of Governors, BIISS chaired the session.

2 Address of Welcome a religion based theocracy. Major General A K M Abdur Rahman, ndc, psc, Director General, BIISS delivered the address of welcome. He mentioned that Contemporary South Asia is a region marred by violent extremism and terrorism. It has had long experiences of terrorism as various groups - be it the separatists based on ethnicity or the insurgents based on leftist ideology, or the latest phenomenon i.e., religious extremists all have had used and continue to using terrorism as a tool and method to achieve political objectives. And these objectives range from establishing a separate statehood, to overthrow the existing secular government and instituting He highlighted the fact that there is a distinctive feature of terrorism in South Asia, if we take the region as a whole. Some countries of the region are facing international or transnational terrorism, yet there are some others, like Bangladesh, that are facing terrorist threats mostly from home grown extremist groups that are far deficient than the organisationally and ideologically formidable terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabab, or the Islamic State. Because of this diversity, a counter terrorism strategy in South Asia must adopt a holistic approach involving all the stakeholders and the partners. He noted that to successfully combat violent extremism and terrorism, any strategy must have four Ps, pursue, prevent, protect and prepare. To elaborate: pursue violent extremists in order to stop attacks; prevent people from becoming terrorists or supporting violent extremism; protect our population; and finally, prepare to mitigate the impacts in case any terrorist incident occurs. In addition, he also stressed on the need to adopt both short and long-term measures. Short-term measures like counter-terror and anti-terror initiatives employing force to immediately fight and eliminate terrorism need to be complemented with long-term measures such as sincerely conceiving a plan to eradicate or mitigate the causes of terrorism, which are mostly socio-economic in nature in South Asia. All the countries of the region by now have successfully adopted the necessary legal framework and established the institutional set up of law enforcement. But in terms of long-term planning to root out the causes of terrorism they seems lagging behind and that remains a major challenge of counter terrorism in South Asia. Cooperation and collaboration among the countries of the region in this regard is absolutely essential. Cooperation in terms of intelligence sharing and exchange of best practices will contribute immensely in effectively countering violent extremism and terrorism in South Asia.

3 The Lecture At the outset, Gen Hasnain admits that his lecture is to some extent India biased and also from an Indian military mind. He started his lecture by saying that One Man s Terrorist Is Another Man s Freedom Fighter. He mentioned different issues that facilitates terrorism which are subnational alienation, extremist ideology and faith, ignorance, lack of education, lack of employment opportunities, weak social structure, weak integration, proxy cross border interests, vulnerable diasporas in alien environment, drugs and illicit arms trade, and counterfeit and other financial conduits. Alienation is the most important issue in discussion of terrorism. All types of terror start from some kind of alienation for example, religious alienation, societal alienation, sub-national alienation, minority alienation. Deprivation in terms of education, employment opportunities and social structure also leads to alienation. Financial conduit is also a facilitator of terrorism. Where did the LTTE get arms when Sri Lanka is an island nation. There was financial conduit supporting LTTE. He mentioned, he visited Canada; in the morning in Montreal he saw a huge gathering of people. A programme was setup there by the Tamil community, and there he found, money was being raised for the fight in northern part of Sri Lanka at that time. So, financial conduit is an important issue. The moment a person or a group have money available in addition to ideology, leadership, and alienation then they have all the ingredients of extremism. Another example of financial conduit is the rise of IS (Islamic state). Islamic state is a successful terrorist organization. When they went Mosul, they looted four hundred and eighty million US dollars. They are the richest terrorist organization in the world. And secondly, the Mosul Refinery (which is under the control of IS) itself producing oil. It is interesting to note that who are buying their oil. If we investigate we will find that all those are fighting against IS, are also buying their oil. So there is strange paradox and strange things are happening there.

4 Another important facilitator of terrorism is the leadership. Leadership can change everything. What happened in the case of Al-Qaida, Osama Bin Laden (iconic leader, terrorist leader), he took Al-Qaida from one level to the highest level. What happened with Baghdadi. Baghdadi is an iconic leader within Islamic States. Say the name of Provakaran; he was an iconic leader. The centre of gravity of Sri Lankan conflict is the Provakaran. The moment, Provakaran was eliminated, it ended the war. We have regional Commonalities in south Asia. The problem between India and Pakistan is colonial problem. Kashmir remains a colonial legacy. Over last 70 years we were not able to resolve that. The Tamil insurgency also has colonial legacy. The British took Tamil labourer from India to Sri Lanka to work in the tea garden. India also has some problems in some provinces. There are 34 terrorist groups in Manipur. But some of them are very small. The more group proliferate the more difficult to manage. In Kerala, the problem is like Bangladesh that is, ideology. A very large part of Gulf Diaspora is from Kerala. Who are purposefully radicalised and they are coming back home and dictating things to their parents, grandparents, children etc. That is how they are trying to change the social structure. This is not acceptable to India. Pakistan has managed to control much of its border. However, Baluchistan is a concern for Pakistan. They blame India for all that happens in Baluchistan. Indian army claims that they are not involved in Baluchistan. When it comes to sectarian issues; the Shia- Sunni conflict is also a concern for Pakistan. Pakistan has good terrorist and bad terrorist. Bad terrorist of Pakistan can be sent to India. In Sri Lanka, post conflict scenario exists right now. But still LTTE and JVP are latent threats. JVP is active since last 14 years. Sri Lanka has eliminated LTTE from main land but how could it be possible to eliminate elements that are in Australia, UK, Canada, Singapore, and London. Bhutan remains as haven of peace. Bangladesh is relatively successful in countering radicalisation and violence. The world has congratulated Bangladesh for countering incipient terror threats. Whole South Asia consists a good number of Muslim population. Very important segment of Muslim population of the world are in

5 Bangladesh. It is important to note that whenever a caliphate is suggested or in a large pan Islamic forum, from Atlantic to Central Asia, from East Africa or to South East Asia, Bangladesh has the chance to be part of that. In India, Muslims are still in pockets. In Pakistan they are not concentrated. Bangladesh has a large segment of integrated Muslim population. That is why Bangladesh is important into a larger game. Though Bangladesh has certain local terror groups but they are aware of it. They cannot allow flourishing those terror groups and also cannot allow these groups to establish links with global terrorist networks. Let me say about the strength of Bangladesh. Bangladesh is a country that does not need integration. It is already an integrated nation. A nation with a very rich culture of fine arts, literature, music and one ethnicity and one language. Very few countries are there in the world with such advantages. Then Bangladesh also does not have proxy war, proxy cross border interest. Terrorists have no religion, terrorist know no ideology. They do not look at tomorrow, they look at toady. They don t say this is Islamist terrorist, this is this Maoist terrorist, this is LLTE terrorist. Their network is to help each other through financial networks, drug smuggling etc. It is surprising that national borders are no bound for them. So, it is important for Bangladesh that they cannot allow the small scale networks to proliferate. A good number of members of IS were recruited from the island state Maldives. Many people of Maldives are also the part of Diasporas of the Gulf area. Nepal is becoming a problem of this area. The amendment of the constitution of Nepal has created the current problem. Afghanistan is still highly unstable country. It needs eight billion dollars to survive in a year. It is dependent on foreign assistance. When International community will go beck then there is a possibility that it will step backwards. Islamic State is also looking for its proliferation. There is a possibility that IS can proliferate in Afghanistan and in the central Asia. Central Asia is going to be the centre of big game. India is in the periphery of Central Asia. So the possibility of proliferation of IS in Central Asia is a concern for India and Pakistan. Bangladesh also needs to remain conscious about it. About countering terrorism, he mentioned, by 1996, we found local Pakistani terrorist within Pakistan were increasing in number. One time, 75 percent of the terrorists in the Jammu and Kashmir were from Pakistan and 25 percent were from local. Today it has changed; the large part is from local and less from outside (from Pakistan or from any other country). The lesson that I am trying to bring is: at the early stage we make a mistake by using force. How do you apply the

6 basic theory of conflict? Everyone thinks the theory is applicable in conventional way (the theory of conflict initiation, conflict stabilization, conflict transformation and finally conflict domination). Combination of hard and soft power is important. Conflict termination is to integrate the population with the mainstream in a post conflict scenario. A good example is Northern Ireland. Making money and improving the quality of life have contributed to integrate the people in Northern Ireland. Sri Lanka has also taken different initiative to integrate Tamil population in this regard. General Hasnain states that the local police know about the people, about local terrorists and local scenario. So police can be used as good tool for countering terrorism. It took years to end the conflict in Punjab. It is the empowerment of police (not military) that contributed to the stability in the area in India. Punjab is one of the most successful cases in the history of counter terrorism in the world. Hence, the empowerment of local police always leads to success in counter terrorism efforts. Media can play a crucial role in countering terrorism. Singapore has become a model of de-radicalisation and counter radicalisation. After the incident of 9/11, they took a visionary decision to prevent possible terror attacks in Singapore. They perceived that minority may be mislead and radicalised. So they took decision to create network with Islamic scholars from South East Asian nations. They took different deradicalisation and counter radicalisation programme in different minority communities. Their main targets were centre of male concentration e.g. Prison, schools, Colleges, labour Camps etc. They eradicated the ideas on violence.

7 Open Discussion Major General (Rtd) AMSA Amin thanked the Speaker for his insightful lecture and asked why he was considering ISIS as the most successful terrorist organisation. He also wanted to know the opinion of the speaker regarding the debate of presence of the ISIS in Bangladesh. Response: Replying to the question Lt. Gen. Hasnain said the term success is very relative and comparative. He told that ISIS is the only terrorist organisation that has direct control over money, ideology and territory, as well as they are very efficient in using social media to expand their activities. Regarding the presence of ISIS in Bangladesh, he answered that he doesn t think there is a presence of ISIS in Bangladesh and not even in India and Pakistan in a large scale. Dr. ASM Ali Ashraf, Associate Professor, Department of International Relations, Dhaka University thanked the speaker for mentioning the SAARC Anti Terrorism Convention of 1987 and it s Protocol He asked the speaker regarding the principal barriers for regional and supranational cooperation among the SAARC nations in combating terrorism and asked whether there is any opportunity to move from bilateral cooperation to multilateral cooperation for intelligence sharing in this regard. Response: Answering the question the speaker said that though he is not an expert on SAARC but he thinks it is obvious to increase cooperation. He mentioned that the right kind of messages and right body languages of leaders were found in the last SAARC Summit held in Kathmandu but unfortunately SAARC is the sufferer of India Pakistan awkward equation. Colonel (Retd) Emdad Uddin Ahmed stated that in 2009, Sheikh Hasina, Honourable Prime Minister of Bangladesh floated the idea of Anti-terrorism Task force. Then he asked the speaker whether it is possible in the current situation to formulate Anti terrorism Task Force including Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. Response: In reply, General Hasnain said that he doesn t think that it is viable to formulate a task force like NATO, ISAF in this region due to lack of trust. There exists huge mistrust between India and Pakistan that are supposed to be the largest contributors of the task force. Though he expects that the day will come to go ahead together but he doesn t think to make it possible in the near future.

8 Mr. Humayun Kabir Bhuiyan, Journalist, the Daily Independent mentioned about the diversity of different culture and languages that exist in Bangladesh though that is not as much diverse as the case in India. Then he informed that when it comes to Radicalism there is a notion of instantly pointing out to Muslims for terrorist activities that is worsening the situation. He differed with the Speaker that radicalisation is getting worse with the participation of People of the Middle Eastern region and mentioned that most of the fighters joined/joining ISIS are coming from USA, UK, France, Australia etc. Response: The speaker noted that Bangladesh is the best place in South Asia with one language and one ethnicity and in terms of terrorism it is not as vulnerable as Pakistan. Regarding the relations between terrorism and Islam, he informed that he has been asked the question many times and he thinks that if radicalism is linked to any other faith creating a problem around the world then obviously it will be equally problematic. But General Hasnain added that from the angle of strategic analysis the idea can t be ignored because so far many terrorist activities taken place in this region are linked to the faith of Muslims. High Commissioner of Sri Lanka to Bangladesh, H. E. Ms. Yasoja Gunasekera thanked the speaker for his wonderful and enlightening presentation. She noted that the war in Sri Lanka ended six years ago and informed the audience about her country s effort to ensure peace. Mentioning about the use of child soldiers by the LTTE in terrorist activities earlier, she asked the speaker how women and children are becoming the victims of terrorism and how they can be made active actors of economic growth instead of becoming victims of war. Response: In replying to her question, the speaker mentioned about the role and contribution of women in forming a society and said that women can play vital role from different positions like as a mother, as a daughter, as a sister, as a wife and can influence her male positively in the aspect of terrorism. Empowerment of women in this regard is very important, he added. Lieutenant General (Retd) Harun-Ar-Rashid made an interesting comment as he noted that he started his career as a terrorist because in 1971 Liberation War he fought as a freedom fighter against Pakistan and the Pakistani forces called him a terrorist. He opined that in the case of terrorism in Bangladesh, the main threat isn t outside factors rather it is domestic threat that is affecting Bangladesh. Response: In responding to the question the speaker mentioned it again that though there is some element of threat but Bangladesh is the least threatened state of South Asia in respect

9 of terrorism and steps should be taken to counter the threats. Mr. M. S. Siddiqui, Legal Economist, mentioned that though he doesn t believe that in future Bangladesh might become an Islamic country but in some quarters there are some perceptions that Bangladesh might transform into an Islamic country. In this regard he asked the speaker, why this type of thinking is working. Response: Answering to the question, the speaker said that there are many Diasporas living in the West and they are bringing positive, secular and democratic values to this region. At the same time there are many Diasporas living in different countries which are unmonitored in many ways and they are blamed to bring negative values from that countries and Bangladesh should be aware of it. Lt. Gen. Mainul Islam, Principal Staff Officer, Armed Forces Division, commented that a secular world is very difficult. History represents the divide and rule since the British regime and still different countries are engaged into conflict. The whole world is in conflict, mostly the Middle East. Terrorism is breaking down those countries. He identified that we have been suffering from an unending debate on secularism for almost hundred years and, as it appears, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are still not out of it. Faith and trust among these countries are in a complex form and we have to work on these issues. Response: In reply, General Hasnain mentioned that terrorism has no special border. He admitted that, he did not mention enough about the issue of Arab Spring which was all over talked about. He elaborated that propaganda of IS (Islamic State) has created a new dimension of terrorism. Faiz Sobhan, Research Director, Bangladesh Enterprise Institute (BEI) mentioned that it has been internationally and widely recognised that Bangladesh has been able to counter terrorism in last 6-7 years. Trust is a critical factor in regional matters here and he raised a question that what the General can do to build trust and political will at the top of the pyramid. His second question was about highly intoxicating appeal of ISIS which has managed to have thousands of people joining in the rank of IS and he asked, how does the General will start counter the extremist narratives they propagate.

10 Response: In replying to the question, General Hasnain said that trust has become a complex factor and each country of this region should work together to build up a mutual relationship for securing this sub-regional area. He outlined that the Islamic state has created an anti materialism era. We have to stay out of it. Human civilization has ups and downs, so some isolated community like IS has hacked into internet which has great impact over some people or targeted group. Shahid Islam Chawdhury, from New Age, mentioned that there is a perception in the mind of the people here that the neighbouring countries intelligence like RAW of India and ISIS of Pakistan and some other groups have presence in Bangladesh. He asked the General for his comment. Response: General Hasnain mentioned that no one can prove and disprove the presence of the intelligence agencies in Bangladesh but the fact is it s a strategic game that will keep nations surrounded. India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Nepal, these five states are interlinked, and the reason behind this is to know what is happening in the domestic area of those countries. These are the games that nations play. Aynul Bari, Special Branch (SB), Bangladesh Police, summed up some major points how to deal with counterterrorism from the lecture and his experience. He pointed out the importance of de-radicalisation of activism, finding and stopping terror financing, preventing carrying and supplying illegal weapons to national and international terrorist groups and propaganda management in communal conflicts in our South Asian context. He asked the general about how we could de-radicalise the religious extremists. Response: General Hasnain emphasized on the need for positive thinking everywhere and suggested that we have to use it for our own good. He mentioned that we have to deduct unnecessary things and come forward. Ambassador Hemayet Uddin, Former Foreign Secretary of Bangladesh, pointed out that the US Secretary of the State never mentions Islamic State. The Arab states call them ISIS. There is a long story behind the emergence of IS (Islamic state). The Diaspora factor is an important factor. The people of our country who came back from foreign countries have very little idea about what is known as radical. Few people coming back with radical ideas and spreading those in social media. He asked the General regarding India- Bangladesh relations as the two countries now are enjoying a degree of mutual confidence in counterterrorism.

11 Reply: General Hasnain admitted that we should be cautious in using the term like IS. He elaborated that the Maoist threat is a long term and serious military threat for India. It is not the heartland insurgency of India. Islamic terrorism is a major problem that to worry about and it is not coming out from India. There are enough groups and their sleeping partners here and there which can be awaken any time. It is very much there because it is manifested over the last seven or eight years. So India is not in ease stage now actually. In the aspect of Diaspora factor, he said that it is an opinion against opinion. He was glad to know that Bangladeshi people are not interested in radicalisation. He added that last six to seven years were most important and meaningful years in Indo-Bangladesh relations. And the land boundary issue settlement was a huge positive trigger. In the long run he wished that it will be carried out in a right way to open up as much tourism and soft borders between India and Bangladesh as possible. He explained that now India is issuing two million visas in a year from Bangladesh and he suggested that it should be three million so that Bangladeshi people can visit India. All medical visas should be approved. He suggested that intellectual visit and people to people visit between India and Bangladesh are good, while it was his first visit in Bangladesh. He is very positive in this aspect. Lastly he mentioned that there is a magnetic attraction towards Islamic state. The arrival of internet has made it easy. Different isolated community and some groups of young people are hugely affected by it. That is the basic reason behind the rise of these insurgent groups. Brig Gen M Sakhawat Hussain (Retd.), Former Election Commissioner, Election Commission of Bangladesh, pointed out that a lots of Indian analyst does not talk about so called Islamic terrorism in India. He raised a question that by 2046 India will be a dominant country, and will it remain within India or proliferate outside India. And where did the General place India when it almost there in Afghanistan, in central Asia and China, and dominating the issues. Reply: General Ata Hasnain gave a prolong answer to his question. He mentioned that India is almost there to become a participant in the new great game. India was virtually blocked out earlier but now very proactive in Afghanistan. He noted that India invested around US$ 2.5 billion in Afghanistan in last fifteen years. Lots of roads, hospitals have been constructed, the parliament building has been constructed, and lots of educational institutions have been constructed. He informed that Indian Soft power has increased there tremendously. India is also looking forward to build relations with Iran as the nuclear issue is about to resolve with the west, and Iran is very proactive now. According to him, proposals like new silk route and one belt one road are part of new great game. So India is not out of it completely.

12 Concluding Remarks Ambassador Munshi Faiz Ahmad, Chairman, Board of Governors of BIISS, and the session Chair in his concluding remarks mentioned that terrorism is a major problem for the world now-adays. At present especially after the terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, religious fundamentalism, in transnational mode, is presumably considered the gravest threat to the regional security and stability of South Asia. Terrorism has multiple causes. Various social, cultural, economic, political and psychological factors come together as the causes of terrorism/radicalisation. Lack of social cohesion, education, marginalisation of groups, issues of inequalities have acted as the triggering factors of global terrorism/radicalisation. Again, lack of proper law enforcement, proper rehabilitation and prevention of the root causes of terrorism have failed to remove the curse of terrorism from this region. Terrorist groups are exploiting local grievances and drawing on international events to promote radical and extremist causes, though the underlying objectives of many of these groups remain the capture of state power and the transformation of systems of government. He highlighted that terrorism is a cross border issue in nature, so regional cooperation is necessary. Cooperation could be done bilaterally or multilaterally. Bangladesh-India cooperation on the terrorism issue could be seen as an example of bilateral cooperation. In terms of multilateral cooperation, a new regional mechanism for counter terrorism could be set up which could provide a platform for counterterrorism training and other capacity building activities, facilitating the exchange of expertise and information among the state of South Asia which is essential for building the trust needed for cross border cooperation. He pointed out that there is no military solution to counter terrorism. The only solution is political, economic and social measures to ensure trust, dignity and non-discrimination, etc. Hate cannot be eradicated by hate. The only way to end hate is compassion and love.