Index to Congressional Designation Text. Francisco Canseco Rodney Ellis Sylvia Garcia Alexander Green Mike Hull...

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1 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 1 of 331 Index to Congressional Designation Text Gonzalo Barrientos... 2 Francisco Canseco Rodney Ellis Sylvia Garcia Alexander Green Mike Hull Sheila Jackson-Lee Eddie Bernice Johnson Mark Veasey Royce West

2 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 2 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez State Defendants Congressional Text Designations for Gonzalo Barrientos 1

3 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 3 of 331 6:13-15 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 13 Q. Could you please state your full name for the 14 record? 15 A. Gonzalo Barrientos, Jr. 15: Q. Okay. When were you first elected to the 13 House? 14 A Q. Okay. And how long did you serve in the House 16 for? 17 A. Ten years. 16:4-9 4 Q. And where was your district located? 5 A. The first time it was the whole County of 6 Travis. The second time it was the east, southeast. 7 Q. And did that stay the same location for the 8 rest of your time in the House? 9 A. Yes. 17: Q. And after your time in the House, you began 18 service in the Senate. Do you remember when that was? 19 A. I was elected in '84 and served in '85, the 20 first session. 21 Q. And how long were in the Senate for? 2

4 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 4 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 22 A. Technically, I think Q. When you say "21," years? 24 A. Years, yes. 18: Q. And where was that district located? 6 A. When I was first elected, it was all of Travis 7 County and all of Hays County. Later it was all of 8 Travis County. Then, I think, later there was 9 redistricting, and they took a chunk out of south middle/south Travis County. 34:19-35:10 19 Do you recall whether during past 20 redistricting efforts while you were in the Senate there 21 were field hearings that were held on redistricting? 22 A. I believe that there were, but I can't remember 23 the times or places. I just think that there were some 24 field hearings. 25 Q. And do you know whether those would have been 3

5 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 5 of 331 Page 35 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 1 in the -- in the regular session? 2 A. Hmm. That would have been hard. They might 3 have been, but it would have been difficult to have them 4 during a regular session, but it might have been. 5 Q. And why do you say it would have been 6 difficult? 7 A. Twenty-five million people, a budget of 8 billions and billions of dollars, thousands of bills 9 being introduced and heard, 140 days to do it, it would 10 have been to difficult to do everything you want to do. 39: Q. Okay. I want to ask you about the passage of 18 this bill on the floor, so I've got an exhibit to show 19 you and I'll mark it as Exhibit 5 for this deposition. 20 (Exhibit 5 marked.) 40:8-41:19 8 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) I've handed you what I have 9 marked as Exhibit 5, and this is a printout from the 10 May 24, 1991, Senate journal. And I just want to ask 11 you a question or two about the third page of this 12 document, which -- which reflects the passage of House 13 Bill And under the heading "House Bill 150 on 4

6 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 6 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 15 Third Reading," this states, "Senator Glasgow moved that 16 the Constitutional Rule and Senate Rule 7.20 requiring 17 bills to be read on three several days be suspended and 18 that H.B.150 be placed on its third reading and final 19 passage." 20 I just want to ask you what your knowledge 21 is as to the rule that's being referenced there as being 22 suspended. 23 A. I believe -- and I have to guess at some of 24 this. 25 MS. PERALES: Well, let me tell you now Page 41 1 that you should testify as to what's in your personal 2 knowledge and recollection. If you don't remember 3 something, it's okay to say you don't remember. 4 A. I don't remember, but I can tell you the way 5 things work; and that is that if it's very obvious that 6 votes are there for something, you can suspend the rules 7 to take on and get onto other business. 8 And as you can see there by the indication 9 of the nay votes, they were all Republicans. So the 10 vote was -- they voted for their own record so that 11 the -- the motion was to pass it. 12 It was going to be passed anyway whether 5

7 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 7 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 13 you waited now or three days, don't wait three days, get 14 on to other business that the general public wants you 15 to get at. 16 Q. From your experience, were these commonly done, 17 these kinds of motions? 18 A. It depended on the bill, the content; but it 19 was done fairly regularly. 42: And is it correct this document reflects 2 that you voted in favor of the motion? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. Okay. And then this indicates that the bill, 5 being H.B. 150, was read a third time and passed by a 6 viva voce vote. Did I read that correctly? 7 A. Yes, it is. 8 Q. And it seems to indicate that a couple of 9 members voted, voted nay on the final passage of the 10 bill. Is that correct? 11 A. The -- there were those recorded votes Q. Right. 13 A. -- voting no. 14 Q. And are you -- are you listed as a member 15 voting no? 16 A. I am not listed with the Republican from 6

8 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 8 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 17 Dallas, Republican from Tarrant, the Republican from 18 Bexar, the Republican from East Texas, Dallas, 19 et cetera. No, I did not join them. 43:13-44:20 13 Q. I want to ask you a couple questions about the congressional redistricting plan as well, and I 15 will hand you what I will mark as Exhibit (Exhibit 6 marked.) 17 A. Is this the same document? 18 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) It's not the same document. 19 It's a similarly formatted document, but the one I 20 handed you marked as Exhibit 6 should indicate H.B. 1 on 21 the front of it. 22 And this is, I'll represent to you, a 23 printout from the Texas Legislature Online for the 24 legislative history of H.B. 1 in the 72nd legislature. 25 The Caption Text reads, "Relating to the apportionment Page 44 1 of the state into congressional districts." And the 2 Last Action reads, "08/29/1991 E Effective in 90 days /24/91." 4 Is this a bill that you recall, as we're 5 sitting here today? 6 A. No. 7

9 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 9 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 7 Q. Now, if you turn to the third page of the 8 document, am I correct in reading that it appears to 9 have been filed -- the bill was filed in the House on 10 8/16/1991? It's the last column on the bottom. 11 A. Yep, that's what it says. 12 Q. Okay. And then if you turn to the first page, 13 there are indications for when the bill was signed in 14 the Senate and signed in the House. They are about four 15 down in the description. And is it correct that both of 16 those are reflected as August 25, 1991? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. So about nine days after it was filed in the 19 House? 20 A. Correct. 45: Q. Okay. Then if you turn to the second page of 5 this report, if you look at the actions of the Senate -- 6 so all of those with the "S" to the left of it -- it 7 appears the first action of the Senate was that the bill 8 was received from the House in -- on August 22, Is that consistent with what you're seeing on this form? 10 A. Received from the House, is that what you're 11 asking? 12 Q. Yes. 8

10 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 10 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 13 A. Yes, 22nd. 14 Q. And then it was scheduled for a hearing on 15 August 24, A. Correct. 17 Q. And then if you go back to the first page, does 18 it appear accurate that the -- the passage of the bill 19 in the Senate occurred on August 25? 20 A. Signed in the Senate. 21 Q. On which date do you show it as signed in the 22 Senate? 23 A. 8/25. 46:17-47:7 17 Q. Now I want to ask you one question or a couple 18 questions about the -- you can put that exhibit away. I 19 don't think I have any more questions on that. 20 But a question or two about the redistricting process; and during that time, you were in 22 the House. Is that correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. 25 (Exhibit 7 marked.) 9

11 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 11 of 331 Page 47 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 1 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) I'm going to show you what I 2 am marking as Exhibit 7, and this is another printout of 3 the legislative history, and this one is for H.B. 960 in A. Did you say '91? 6 Q A. '81. 47: Q. Is it accurate to say that on this document, 12 right below H.B. 960, it indicates that it's relating to 13 apportionment of the state in the representative 14 districts? 15 A. That's what it says. 49:4-52:3 4 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) Right. 5 No, that's fine. 6 I want to show you one other document 7 about House bill 960. I believe this will be marked as 8 Exhibit 8. 9 (Exhibit 8 marked.) 10 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) And this document is titled 11 "House Study Group Bill Analysis," and it reflects an 12 analysis of H.B. 960 from Are you familiar with 10

12 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 12 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 13 bill analyses like this from the House study group? 14 A. I am. 15 Q. And what A. Generally. 17 Q. And what generally do these analyses cover? 18 A. They take legislation which has been introduced 19 and it's likely to come up on the floor or in committee, 20 and they give -- try to give you a brief analysis of 21 what the law contains that you'll be taking up; and in 22 some cases, pros and cons of it. 23 Q. Now I want to ask you about a part of this 24 document. It's actually on Page 1 going into Page And it's under the heading "Background," and it Page 50 1 indicates, "The Regions, Compacts and Districts 2 Committee conducted several weeks of field hearings 3 during the interim on redistricting proposals. 4 Additional public hearings were conducted during the 5 session. 6 "The Citizen Advisory Committee was 7 appointed by the Speaker to act as an information 8 conduit to various communities. The committee solicited 9 district plans for individual members and metropolitan 10 delegations. 11

13 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 13 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 11 "The committee had originally planned to 12 follow a procedure where a preliminary draft proposal 13 would be offered, public hearings would be conducted on 14 the draft plan in late April, a final plan would be 15 drafted early May, further public hearings would be 16 conducted on the draft plan, then the committee would 17 act on the final draft. 18 "For various reasons, the committee did 19 not follow its original timetable. A draft proposal was 20 distributed to members and the press for the first time 21 around noon on Saturday, May 23. A public hearing was 22 conducted Saturday afternoon and evening and Sunday 23 afternoon and evening. 24 "At 1:30 a.m. on Monday morning, May 25, 25 the committee met in formal session to consider Page 51 1 H.B After adopting 16 separate changes, the 2 committee voted to report the bill at 2:50 a.m." 3 Do you recall the circumstances of this at 4 all? 5 A. Nope. 6 Q. Okay. You weren't a member of the Regions, 7 Compacts and District Committee, though. 8 A. Not that I can remember, no. 12

14 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 14 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 9 Q. Okay. And do you recall any -- anything in 10 particular about H.B. 960 and the amount to which it had 11 been submitted for the public's viewing before it was 12 voted out by the committee? 13 A. I do not. 14 Q. Okay. And are you aware of whether after H.B! was voted out by the committee there were any other 16 further hearings held on this bill and committee? 17 A. If it was voted out of committee, there would 18 be no -- normally there would be no further hearings on 19 that same bill unless it was sent back to the committee. 20 Q. In your experience, would there ever be a bill 21 that would be sent back to committee to consider 22 amendments that had been offered on the floor? 23 A. Technically, that could happen, but generally 24 speaking, committees try to take care of business right 25 there on the get-go. Or there would be substitute Page 52 1 motions on the floor of the House or Senate -- 2 Q. So -- 3 A. -- which would add or subtract for debate. 53: Q. Is it fair to say that redistricting is a 9 divisive area? 13

15 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 15 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 10 A. Oh, definitely it can be. 11 Q. And what about partisan? Is it partisan 12 process? 13 A. Let me try to be nice. Yes. 61: Q. Did you have a particular position on 17 Congressional District 35? 18 A. Did I have a particular opinion or -- of what 19 it should be like? 20 Q. Yeah. I mean, did you support the drawing of 21 CD 35 as it is in the 2011 congressional plan? 22 A. Yeah, it was compared to what had been done 23 before. Yeah, I supported it. 63: Q. Now, as to plan C and we can -- we can 18 look at the backup data that's behind the map, if need 19 be, but are you aware whether Congressional District created a majority of Hispanic voting-age population? 21 A. It is my understanding that that particular 22 district gave an opportunity for Hispanics in that 23 district to select the people that they would want to 24 vote for. 64:24-66:4 24 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) And my question was whether 14

16 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 16 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 25 you believe that in this plan, in C100, the plan that Page 65 1 existed prior to 2011, there was a district in which 2 Hispanics, using -- using your words, were able to elect 3 their -- have an opportunity to elect their candidates. 4 A. I don't think so in this one. And, of course, 5 I should have brought my glasses, but the previous 6 congressional district out of Central Texas or Travis 7 County, I think, went all the way down to the border. 8 Am I correct in that? 9 Q. Well, it's what you recall at this point. I 10 don't want A. Well, that was my question, though. 12 MS. PERALES: If you don't recall, it's 13 okay to just say "I don't remember" or A. Well, that one -- this one is better than this 15 one (indicating). How's that? 16 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) When you say -- just so it's 17 clear on the record, when you say this is better than 18 that, you're talking about A. One eighty-five in terms of representation is 20 better than this plan, C100, in my opinion (indicating). 21 MS. PERALES: And the witness is 22 indicating Central Texas. 15

17 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 17 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 23 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) I was going to ask to confirm. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. With that statement, are you referring to Page 66 1 Central Texas or to the statewide plan as a whole? 2 A. Central Texas only. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. Travis County specifically. 67:18-68:10 18 Q. Do you know the -- focusing on the 19 congressional map, do you know the general areas of the 20 state in which there have been challenges made to the congressional plan? 22 A. Not really. Again, only focusing in on the 23 area here in Central Texas where I am. 24 Q. Is that where your main knowledge is based on? 25 A. Specifically, yes. Page 68 1 Q. And do you have knowledge in terms of other 2 areas of the state; for example, do you have knowledge 3 in terms of El Paso, to use that as an example, of where 4 additional opportunities could have been created? 5 A. No, I do not. 6 Q. And then the Dallas-Fort Worth area, have you 16

18 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 18 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 7 done any kind of analysis to determine how a district 8 could have been drawn in the Dallas-Fort Worth area to 9 create additional opportunity districts for Latinos? 10 A. I have not. 72:22-73:8 22 Q. So if -- is it fair to say that if Plan C235, 23 which was the plan adopted by the 2013 legislature, if 24 that plan maintained the configuration of Congressional 25 District 35 as it was in Plan C185, that in your opinion Page 73 1 Latinos would have the opportunity to elect their 2 candidate of choice in that district in C235? 3 A. As I see it now, yes. 4 Q. And if we, you know, if we assume that there 5 was no change to it, then would your position as to 6 Latinos' ability to elect their candidate of choice, 7 your opinion as to C185, would that be same as to C235? 8 A. It appears that way, yes. 75:23-76:5 23 Q. I'm just curious if there are specific 24 complaints you have about the Texas House map that was 25 enacted in Page 76 1 A. I cannot say that I have those complaints 17

19 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 19 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 2 because I'm paying more attention to these other maps. 3 Q. What about the 2013 Texas House map? Are there 4 any -- 5 A. Same. 76:24-78:2 24 Q. But my questions are more focused on process, 25 you know, the hearings that were held or the floor. In Page 77 1 terms of the process, do you have any complaints about 2 what was done in the 2011 statewide redistricting, the 3 process? 4 A. No. 5 Q. And what about as to 2013, just focusing on 6 process questions related to -- 7 A. Same. 8 Q. Okay. So are you able to say there was 9 anything out of the ordinary in terms of process that 10 occurred in 2011 redistricting? 11 A. Not that I can recall. 12 Q. Did you review the process -- just focusing on for now, did you review or were you aware of the process such that you have any way to compare it 15 prior to redistricting cycles when you were in the 16 legislature? 18

20 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 20 of A. No. Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 18 Q. And then as to 2013, do you have any 19 familiarity with the 2013 plan to know what type of 20 process was used when the statewide plans were enacted 21 in 2013? 22 A. I do not. I assumed that all of these use the 23 same process as have been done before. 24 Q. And do you have any basis to criticize how 25 those plans were -- the process by which those plans Page 78 1 were enacted in 2011 or 2013? 2 A. No, just the way they voted. 85: Q. Are you aware of any comments that were made in 23 the 2011 process that reflect discriminatory intent on 24 the party? 25 A. I am not. 92:20-93:9 20 Q. So is it your testimony that under C100, the 21 plan that existed prior to 2011, there were -- there 22 were one or more districts in Travis County in have 23 Latinos could elect their candidates of choice? 24 MS. PERALES: I think this question may 25 have been asked and answered. 19

21 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 21 of 331 Page 93 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 1 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) You can answer. 2 A. Did they have more of a choice? 3 Q. I'm wondering in Plan C100 if there were 4 districts in which Latinos had the opportunity to elect 5 their candidate of choice within Travis County. 6 MS. PERALES: Objection, asked and 7 answered. 8 You may go ahead and answer. 9 A. Not really. 98:9-99:16 9 Q. Now, is it fair to say that there have been 10 improvements over time for minorities in Texas? 11 A. Absolutely. 12 Q. In terms of focusing on your membership in the 13 legislature for one, when you became a member of the 14 House, do you know how many Latino members there were at 15 that time? 16 A. I think, just guessing at it, ten or twelve. 17 Q. And do you know in the Senate how many there 18 were at that time? 19 A. Two or three. 20 Q. And then what about now, are you aware of the 21 current numbers now? 20

22 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 22 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 22 A. The House are in the 20s, I believe, maybe 23 close to 30. I'm not sure. In the Senate, I think 24 there are seven. I can count them, but that's rough 25 guesses. Page 99 1 Q. Were you a member of MALC, when you were a 2 member of the House? 3 A. The Mexican-American Legislative Caucus is a 4 Mexican-American House group. Yes, I was. I was a 5 chairman of it at one time. 6 Q. And do you recall how many members there were 7 when you were in the House? 8 A. I can't recall exactly. Fifteen, 20, some 9 outside. 10 Q. And do you know how many current members are in 11 the Mexican-American Legislative Caucus? 12 A. House Caucus, 20s, maybe close to 30 or so. 13 Q. So is it fair to say in terms of looking at 14 state legislators that there are more Latino legislators 15 now than when you first joined the legislature? 16 A. Certainly. 100: Q. Is it fair to say with respect to African- 7 American legislators, that there are more 21

23 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 23 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 8 African-American legislators in the House now than there 9 were when you first joined? 10 A. That's fair to say. 11 Q. And then what about looking at the Travis 12 County area, let's focus on that, would you acknowledge 13 there are numerous elected public officials that are 14 Latinos? 15 A. Yes. 104:6-9 6 Q. Now, would you also agree that there are public 7 officials in Austin, Travis County, both countywide and 8 non-countywide seats that are African-Americans? 9 A. Yes. 106: Q. Would you agree that three of six members in 14 the Texas House in Travis County are minorities? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And do you know whether this is a larger number 17 than what it was when you were initially in the House? 18 A. It is. 107: Q. What about look more at statewide as a whole. 14 Would you agree looking at statewide races or, I'm 15 sorry, across the state, that there are more public 22

24 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 24 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 16 officials that are Latino than when there were when you 17 were first a member of the legislature? 18 A. Of course. 107:23-108:9 23 Q. And what about looking on the federal side to 24 members of the Texas congressional delegation, are those 25 numbers larger in terms of number of Latinos than there Page were when you were a member of the House? 2 A. I think I remember -- yes, there is a larger 3 number. 4 Q. Now, in terms of the increase in the number of 5 officeholders who are minorities, just looking at Travis 6 County and Austin for now, would you agree there's been 7 a substantial increase since the time when you were in 8 the House? 9 A. It has. 115: Q. And what groups is the coalition comprised of? 4 A. Generally speaking, it was -- was students, 5 Hispanics, African-Americans, progressive Anglos, labor, 6 trial lawyers to a certain extent, the women's movement. 7 Q. So -- but just to clarify, so by tri-ethnic, 8 are you referring to Anglos, Hispanics and 23

25 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 25 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 9 African-Americans? 10 A. I did not use the word "tri-ethnic." You did. 11 I just mentioned the groups that were involved, which 12 was students, African-Americans, women's movement, 13 Mexican-Americans, progressive Anglos, labor, so forth. 14 So it was not just three racial groups. 15 Q. Right. 16 A. It was a lot groups. Like we passed the 17 ten-one for city council districts with a heck of a 18 coalition. The coalition included Republicans, 19 Democrats and all the other groups that wanted a 20 different system. 21 Q. So, as you view it based on the group, is it 22 not purely an ethnic coalition? 23 A. Correct. 118: Q. Now, in terms of the groups voting together, so 15 looking at the Hispanics and African-Americans, do you 16 believe that those groups vote cohesively in primary 17 elections? 18 A. It used to be that way. Now it depends on 19 primary elections. It was generally understood that a 20 Hispanic would not run against a Black African-American 21 incumbent and vice versa, sort of some kind of 24

26 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 26 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 22 negotiating, an understanding that would happen to help 23 each other. But generally speaking, it would be 24 together. 122:12-124:11 12 (Exhibit 14 marked.) 13 Q. (By Mr. Bitter) Right before we left, I was 14 going to hand you an exhibit, which I'll now hand you. 15 It has been marked Exhibit 14, and this relates to my 16 last set of questions regarding voting coalitions in 17 Travis County. 18 MR. HICKS: Fourteen? 19 MR. BITTER: That's right, Q. (By Mr. Bitter) And I will represent to you 21 these are the joint primary election results from 22 March 7, 2006; and if you turn to Page 5 of this 23 document, that is the election that I would like to ask 24 you about, and it is the third one down, and it's the 25 Democratic primary for county court-at-law judge. Page It's between Eric Shepperd and Elena Diaz. 2 I know I had asked you before about Judge Shepperd in 3 the context of another question, but just to clarify 4 that we are talking about the same person, are you 5 familiar with Eric Shepperd? 25

27 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 27 of A. Yes. Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 7 Q. And is it correct that Eric Shepperd is 8 African-American? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And are you familiar with Elena Diaz? 11 A. I am. 12 Q. And is she Hispanic? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. So would you agree this is a primary election 15 between an African-American candidate and a Hispanic 16 candidate? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. And looking at these election results, 19 does it reflect on the far right column under Total Vote 20 that Judge Shepperd received percent of the vote 21 and Elena Diaz received percent of the vote? Is 22 that accurate? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So, going back to what we were talking about 25 before about coalition voting in Austin, if I were Page looking at this election and trying to determine who the 2 coalition supported in this Democratic primary, how 3 would I know that? 26

28 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 28 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 4 A. Well, like I said, the coalition used to be -- 5 and like I said earlier, these types of situations are 6 generally attempted to stay away from, that is to say, 7 an African-American and a Hispanic. 8 However, when there is an open seat, that 9 sometimes happens like this. And who did the people 10 generally support? It looks like both of them. It was 11 only what, a point difference, something like that. 124:24-125:9 24 Q. So would you agree that there's no way to 25 determine just from these results alone who the -- who Page the coalition in Travis County supported between these 2 two candidates? 3 A. I think that, quote, unquote, the coalition 4 split. 5 Q. So could it be the case that African-American 6 voters and Hispanic voters supported different 7 candidates in this election? 8 A. Well, I don't know if you can say 100 percent 9 either way, but generally speaking, perhaps. 129:12-130:11 12 Q. Actually I have one question going back to the 13 coalition, and that is whether in your experience the 27

29 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 29 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Gonzalo Barrientos - Perez 14 coalition has ever supported a Republican candidate. 15 A. I cannot say. I cannot remember any instance. 16 Q. Do you know of any instances where candidates 17 in Austin or Travis County that were Republicans tried 18 to seek out the vote of the coalition and weren't 19 successful? 20 A. I don't think that they would go seek the 21 support of this group, but they might go to individuals 22 within that group seeking votes. 23 Q. And when you say they wouldn't go to that 24 group, why would that be? They wouldn't go to those 25 groups, why would that be? Page A. Well, you know, if you're a Republican, you are 2 not likely to go and meet with the AFLCIO in Travis 3 County or the AFSMI or electrical workers, et cetera, 4 because they generally are not in agreement about the 5 right to work and all that stuff. 6 In terms of, let's say, the 7 African-Americans, they aren't likely to go over to -- 8 right in the middle of African-American population 9 inasmuch as the African-American generally vote, in 10 Travis County anyway, Democrat. The same thing with 11 Hispanics Not all, mind you. 28

30 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 30 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez State Defendants Congressional Text Designations for Francisco Canseco 1

31 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 31 of :9-14:9 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 9 Q. Tell me about the neighborhoods or precincts 10 where you were strong in that Republican primary 11 runoff. What were the areas that were most supportive 12 of you? 13 A. I cannot tell you authoritatively or 14 factually. I can only tell you from recollection, so 15 it's sort of fuzzy. But I remember that we had strong 16 support in the south side of San Antonio. And that's 17 one of the reasons why we -- we won the runoff, if I 18 recall right. 19 Q. Tell me for that primary runoff that you won 20 in 2010, what activities did you do to campaign out in 21 the community? 22 A. Block walked. 23 Q. And where did you block walk? 24 A. South side. 25 Q. Did you go to any community events? Page 13 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Tell me where those community events were 3 located. 4 A. VFW by -- by Mission Park. 5 Q. Uh-huh. 2

32 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 32 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 6 A. Went to a lot of centers where elderly would 7 gather, went to events over at Mission Park, and also 8 at San Jose Mission and Mission Espada. That was -- 9 that's my recollection. 10 Q. I mentioned this to Representative Garza 11 earlier in the week, but my daughter does folklorico 12 dancing. I think we have done every Lions Club and VFW 13 and little school fair there is in San Antonio, so I 14 know what you're talking about here. 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. And when you mention the senior centers, can 17 you tell me the area where those senior centers were 18 located, more or less? 19 A. Southwest Military. 20 Q. And would it be fair to say that these 21 activities that we've been discussing; Mission Park 22 VFW, the Southwest Military area, and the area around 23 the missions, San Jose and Espada, those are all, more 24 or less, in the south side of San Antonio, right? 25 A. Yes, they are in the south side of Page 14 1 San Antonio. 2 Q. And then did you do any block walking in other 3 areas of the district in 2010 for the primary runoff? 3

33 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 33 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 4 A. Yes, the northern parts. 5 Q. And tell me where in the northern parts you 6 did block walking. 7 A. Fair Oaks Ranch, Rogers Ranch, Stone Oak, 8 north -- northwest of 10, Helotes, and all those 9 northern areas. 16:14-17:11 14 Q. I would like to bring you forward a little bit 15 in time to the general election in What would 16 you consider some of your strongest precincts for you 17 now in the general election in 2010? 18 A. I can't answer that fully. Just on a very, 19 very general basis, I think that, you know, it -- I 20 had -- I had support throughout the district, but the 21 concentration of population was mainly around 22 San Antonio and Medina, Uvalde, and Maverick and 23 Val Verde Counties. That's where the majority of the 24 population was centered. I can't authoritatively tell 25 you that right now. Page 17 1 Q. So maybe if we speak in terms of categories. 2 Would it be fair to say that your strength in the 3 general election came in general from strong Republican 4 precincts? 4

34 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 34 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 5 A. No, because I -- I believe that I had -- I had 6 crossover support from many people where I come from. 7 I come from Laredo. I've lived all my -- not my 8 education life, but I've lived most of my life in 9 that -- in that area. I have a brother who's buried in 10 Del Rio and, I mean, he was a rancher there. He was 11 well-known. I'm known throughout the area. 17:21-19:7 21 Q. Can you tell me about how you personally as a 22 candidate reached out and had that crossover appeal? 23 A. Well, I'm a fluent Spanish speaker; I'm a 24 fluent Tex-Mex speaker, an y barrio speaker. I switch 25 well and switching in -- you know, when you're speaking Page 18 1 with people from the area there are certain key words. 2 I can genuinely convey that I'm part of the community 3 and understand those subtleties that can be very easily 4 conveyed from one group to another. 5 Q. And so does this give you real skills as a 6 crossover candidate in the Latino community? 7 A. Absolutely. And I wouldn't call it skills. I 8 would call it I'm a fit. 9 Q. You're a good fit for a Latino majority 10 district? 5

35 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 35 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 11 A. Right, right. 12 Q. Okay. I'm just trying to formulate my 13 questions so I stay organized. 14 Tell me how you talked about your values 15 as a conservative to appeal to voters in the district. 16 A. By the idea that there are opportunities out 17 there for a lot of folks, the idea that we're here for 18 a reason. And I would talk about something that's very 19 near and dear to me. And my father and mother were 20 from Mexico, and when I would go and visit my cousins 21 in Monterey, Mexico we would -- you know, after a 22 while, you know, when you're a kid you get in a fight 23 with them and they start calling you gringo, "There's 24 Gringo Quico." And my dad would say, "Take that as a 25 compliment because here things are done right, in the Page 19 1 right way." 2 Q. In the US? 3 A. In the US. And that's who we are. We're 4 Americans. And the idea that there are opportunities 5 out there is very, very important to a lot of us, and 6 we have to be able to grasp those opportunities, if not 7 for ourselves, for our children. 6

36 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 36 of :15-20:11 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 15 Q. Did you have emphasis at all on some of the 16 social issues or was it more a message about economic 17 stability? 18 A. Mainly it was economic and opportunity, 19 economic opportunities; growth, and development of 20 areas. If you're looking at -- at the vast border 21 area, you're looking at almost 800 miles of 22 Texas-Mexico border. That's where a lot of the 23 concentration of population is other than in the rural 24 areas. 25 So what you have is opportunities that Page 20 1 right now are centered mainly in Laredo or McAllen or 2 Brownsville. But when you look at places like Tornillo 3 up in El Paso County or Presidio or -- or even Del 4 Rio -- 5 Q. Uh-huh. 6 A. -- you know, the ability to grow those ports 7 and to give additional transportation entries and exits 8 for vast, huge opportunities for growth and jobs and 9 economic security of a lot of areas that are 10 underdeveloped, but, yet, they are like diamonds in the 11 rough. 7

37 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 37 of :21-22:21 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 21 Q. You used a term earlier "crossover appeal," 22 and I just wanted to explore that term with you a 23 little bit. When you say "crossover appeal," do you 24 mean that you had appeal to traditional Republican 25 voters as well as Latino voters who might be willing to Page 21 1 essentially cross over from Democrat to Republican to 2 vote for you? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And did you feel as if you were making 5 connections with people during your campaign in 2010, 6 and specifically Latino people, to say to them, "You 7 may have voted democratic before, but I have a message 8 for you and I want your vote"? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And did you feel that you were gaining votes 11 through that message? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Would you say in many ways that Latino values 14 are Republican values? 15 A. No. I would say that Latino values are 16 independent values. They're neither Democrat nor 17 Republican. Latino values, I think, are encompassed in 8

38 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 38 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 18 what my dad would tell me. He said, "Mijo, you're here 19 because this is the land of the free and opportunities 20 and this is where we get ahead." 21 And I don't think that the Texans of 22 Latino heritage or origin are any different from any 23 other American population or ethnicity and -- and 24 they're basically independent. 25 Q. Would it be fair to say, then, that Texans of Page 22 1 Latino descent are likely to vote either Republican or 2 Democrat depending on the message that they're 3 connecting with with the candidate? 4 A. Depending on two things; the candidate and the 5 candidate's message. 6 Q. And that could be of either party; Republican 7 or Democrat? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Shifting now a little bit, would you say that 10 there are some Latinos who are committed Republican 11 voters? 12 A. Uh-huh, yes. 13 Q. And do you know whether in Congressional 14 District 23, as it existed in 2010, whether those 15 committed Latino Republican voters were concentrated in 9

39 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 39 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 16 any particular area of the district? 17 A. Well, if you found -- let me answer this 18 question this way. If you found population centers, 19 whether small, medium, or large, you found Latino 20 committed Republicans that weren't going to switch no 21 matter what. 22:24-23:18 24 Q. Do you think in some respect that they were 25 integrated into precincts with Anglos? Page 23 1 A. Some. But some were found even in communities 2 with nothing but Hispanic people. 3 Q. And I'm interested in following up on that. 4 Can you describe an example of a community like that 5 for me? 6 A. South side of San Antonio -- 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. -- Del Rio, El Paso, Ft. Stockton. 9 Q. And in the south side of San Antonio were 10 there particular neighborhoods where you met committed 11 Latino Republicans? 12 A. Yes. 23: Q. Okay. Would you say that they had certain 10

40 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 40 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 16 traits in common, perhaps a past military connection, 17 or anything else? 18 A. It was eclectic. 32: Q. Beyond maintaining the geographic integrity of 7 the district and it's Hispanicity, did you give -- can 8 you recall now any other directives or goals that you 9 gave to Mr. Yeldell in redistricting? 10 A. I didn't give any goals or any directives 11 other than that. I know that at one time we talked 12 about my getting a purely Republican area in a new 13 drawn district and I said, "That's not my fit. Then my 14 whole purpose is gone." 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. So I wanted to stay with the complexity of the 17 23rd District. 38:18-39:3 18 Q. Okay. And this is something of a unique 19 district, Congressional 23. It's one of the more 20 competitive districts in the House of Representatives 21 from a partisan perspective; is that right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. And the district had elected a Democrat 24 in 2008, which was a big year for Democrats, yes? 11

41 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 41 of A. Yes. Page 39 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 1 Q. And then the district elected a Republican, 2 you, in 2010; is that correct? 3 A. Right, yes. 39: Q. I guess before we get to the election day in , taking you back into 2011, would you agree that 17 there was a concern that Congressional 23 might not 18 elect a Republican to Congress in 2012? 19 A. Let's put it differently, if I may, that it 20 would not vote -- it's a tilt district so it can go 21 either way. And as we spoke about it earlier, it's 22 about who the Republican is and who the Democrat is. 23 It's not about R or D. 40: Q. And you -- you mentioned earlier you wanted to 16 preserve the Hispanic majority population as a 17 characteristic of Congressional 23, right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. But given the flexibility of Latino 20 voters, you knew that the district was going to remain, 21 as you describe, a tilt district? 22 A. Yes. 12

42 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 42 of :24-42:11 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 24 Q. Thank you. I do have, however, a very 25 specific question whether you had a goal of improving Page 42 1 the generic Republican performance of Congressional 23 2 while complying with the Voting Rights Act. 3 A. The goal was to make sure that the Voting 4 Rights Act was -- was maintained. 5 Q. I understand. And within that or along with 6 that goal, did you personally have a goal of improving 7 the generic Republican performance of the district? 8 A. Well, it -- you need an edge, of course. But 9 I didn't want to run in it if it was going to be a 10 throwaway Democrat district that I could never win in 11 no matter what. 50: Q. Did you come to learn at any point whether or 9 not the national party had identified Congressional as a district where they should put in extra resources? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And can you tell me why the party thought 13 extra resources would be appropriate for Congressional 14 23? 15 A. Because the Democrats had -- had targeted it 13

43 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 43 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 16 as -- look, it was a focal point of the nation, period. 17 Q. Of redistricting and then of the A. Of redistricting and then also of -- because 19 of its nature. It's a tilt district, and it has miles of Texas/Mexico border. It's a Hispanic 21 district. 58:5-59:8 5 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) Mr. Canseco, I -- we had 6 just been talking about the color pink; and I'm -- I'm 7 sorry to have to hand you a pink exhibit. 8 We were talking about some of the 9 headlines that you received from Mr. Yeldell about the 10 progress of redistricting. 11 And I wanted to ask you whether there was 12 a point in time where you became aware that Maverick 13 County was going to be split in the new configuration 14 of your district? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Can you tell me how you learned that? 17 A. I was told it was going to be. 18 Q. Do you remember who told you? 19 A. Scott. 20 Q. Did he tell you why Maverick County was going 21 to be split? 14

44 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 44 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 22 A. Not specifically. But I'll tell you, it -- it 23 made a lot of sense to me. 24 Q. Okay. Tell me why. 25 A. Well, because the district was going to get Page 59 1 the rural areas of -- of Maverick County; and the main 2 population center, which was Eagle Pass, was going to 3 go to Henry Cuellar. And there's more synergy in the 4 rural areas to west Texas than there is to Eagle Pass. 5 Q. But didn't you keep other urban areas that 6 were like Eagle Pass? 7 A. Yes, that's true. Like Eagle Pass, Del Rio; 8 and of course, El Paso. We got our border areas. 60:7-61:19 7 Q. Do you remember during 2011 redistricting 8 learning that counties north of the Pecos River were 9 going to be added to Congressional 23? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you consider those counties as having much 12 in common with the border area that was already in 23? 13 A. To a large extent, they did have a lot in 14 common, yes, in their rural nature and the rural nature 15 of even the border counties, like Val Verde County, 16 Maverick County, Presidio, Brewster, El Paso. 15

45 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 45 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 17 Q. Uh-huh. 18 A. There's a -- a nexus of -- of focus just like 19 there is for San Antonio or Dallas or -- or -- or 20 Houston. It's either the Midland centric or they are 21 El Paso centric; but when you come to those two 22 centers, they blend together. It's a -- where you are 23 closer to. 24 Q. And so in addition to the rural nature of 25 these counties above the Pecos River, would it be fair Page 61 1 to say that the counties above the Pecos River that 2 were added to Congressional 23 were not as Hispanic as 3 the counties that were already in 23? 4 A. Not necessarily, no. 5 Q. You don't see a demographic difference between 6 them? 7 A. No. There's -- they're split. I mean, you 8 take Ward County or Crane County or the others, they 9 have a big Hispanic population. 10 Q. And with respect to the regional 11 identification of the counties above the Pecos River, 12 would you agree with me that the counties above the 13 Pecos River that were added to 23 have a sense of 14 themselves as being in a different region than the 16

46 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 46 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 15 border region counties that were already in 23? 16 MR. FREDERICK: Objection, calls for 17 speculation. 18 Q. (BY MS. PERALES) You may answer. 19 A. Not necessarily. 62:5-62:25 5 Q. Okay. But the counties north of the Pecos 6 River really didn't have that border quality, did they? 7 A. They relate to it in many, many ways. And I'm 8 going to give you some examples. You take Fort 9 Stockton, for instance, that claims to want to have the 10 port to the west or La Puerta Pacifico. 11 Q. Uh-huh. 12 A. And I won't get into that belaboring 13 deposition. But they all relate to opportunities from 14 the border and from transportation and from trade. 15 Naturally, a lot of these northern counties, so to 16 speak, of the district are huge in oil and gas right 17 now with Permian Basin oil and gas production. But 18 they do relate very closely to El Paso, Presidio, and 19 the border counties. 20 Q. Did you ever wonder why, if Congressional was overpopulated by almost 150,000 people, you were 22 picking up new territory and new population? 17

47 Case 5:11-cv OLG-JES-XR Document Filed 07/14/14 Page 47 of 331 Perez v. Perry State Defendants Congressional Text Designations Francisco Canseco - Perez 23 A. Yes. In order to make the balance. 24 Q. So with respect to other districts? 25 A. Yeah. 64: Q. Do you remember after seeing the final version 8 of your district whether you communicated any feedback 9 to anybody? 10 A. Yeah. I said, "This is going to be 11 challenged," because I know -- I know what happens in 12 Texas redistricting as far as the 23rd is concerned. 13 Q. And did you have any specific understanding 14 when you saw the new map of why it might be challenged? 15 A. Not because of the map, but because I know the 16 nature of politics and law and how this has become a politics under the umbrella of law. 18 Q. Did you think a challenge was inevitable 19 regardless of how the district would be drawn? 20 A. Yes. 64:25-65:5 25 Q. What did Mr. Yeldell communicate to you about Page 65 1 how the district might have changed or not changed in 2 terms of partisan performance? 3 A. Very basically, he said, "It's the same as 18